As if we were given manna from heaven the City of Twentynine Palms has given us months of delightful and jabbing articles to write. Yes a majority of the Council has given a thumbs up to spend Millions of Dollars of a futile lawsuit to save Project Phoenix.
We are just busting with anticipation and trying to keep a straight face as this group of desert sages steps off a fiscal cliff.
We will have more information as we talk to a few folks later on tonight or in the morning.
Now let me see, the city is going to sue the Department of Finance, who in turn will gleefully accept the suit and put into escrow our entire property tax share. You see they can do things like that because Cities are creatures of the legislature the same as RDAs….. In fact the legislature can move to dis-incorporate the city and take the hole pie for itself…. Smart guys Really Smart.
You might be interested
Let Loose The Dogs Of War: Twentynine Palms Sues
Redevelopment Successor Agency Dissolution
State Says: Hey 29 Palms Cancel those Bonds!!!
Let’s Budget Nuaimi’s Termination for Fiscal 2012/2013.
29 Palms: (1) Redevelopment Shutdown. (2) Residents & Businesses at Great Risk?
Redevelopment Lawsuits hits 100 Mark
The Idea of Project Phoenix and its Conceptual Form
So this is the way to put these cities out of business? finally!!! HURRAH! I have been pleading for disincorporation for the City of La Quinta for so long…and since Frankie/RSG is pushing for a lawsuit from our City… in order to keep consulting fees rolling in to his cronies, I am sure he will recommend that our City file suit as well…HURRAH! DISINCORPORATE! DISINCORPORATE! Save ourselves millions of dollars in middle man costs. Now that I know where it could end, I will support Frankie in his push to sue the State, moving us closer to demise!!! Yeah! Save the taxpayers the millions of dollars it costs to maintain city hall and the payment of bloated salaries, benefits and pensions!!! Go Frankie!!! I hope he continue to piss of DOF and the Controllers Office and they pull the rug out from under him! LMAO/ROTFL
I don’t know the first thing about some of the issues you city is having.
With that being said, I will repeat an old argument.
If you think that the city is, shall we say corrupt, then there are better legal ways to accomplish that without dis-incorporating.
Dis-incorporating puts you in the hands of the county which you reside. The county politics, codes, regulations, funding and a slew of other issues. If you think that for one minute that your county is better running your city then you have fun with that.
I have proved to countless others on the blog and on the streets that there are just as much wrong with the county as with the city if not more.
Their codes are more outdated, more stringent, and more cumbersome. As an example I’d refer you to Dan’s veterans issue.
I can go on and on about this issue.
Consider this, the county would have to pay the city’s outstanding debts. They would sale of the city’s property and cancellation of its lease for various city buildings. Community service buildings, senior centers, youth clubs, etc.
As far as the bond issue in Twentynine Palms…A dis-incorporation may not impair the rights of “any bondholder or other creditor of any county, city, or district,” nor may it impair contract rights or contracts entered into by a public entity pursuant to a joint exercise of powers agreement. Likewise, no dis-incorporation, or term or condition required, may limit the power of bondholders or other creditors to enforce their rights against the city or the successor county receiving the dis-incorporated city’s assets. These limits
stem not only from statute, but also the California Constitution’s and the U.S. Constitution’s prohibitions on the impairment of contracts by operation of state law.
You want to dis-incorporate? Would it not be easier for you to start packing?
Carey my friend…. there are no Contracts to build a god damned thing….
The court has already ruled that RDAs were a creature of the legislature and that the legislature can close them down, corporate cities are about to learn that they too are creatures of the legislature.
A contract to build is not a contract between a bunch of suits to shuffle our tax dollars from one account to the other. It is a fully vetted, publicly bid upon and signed building contract between a Licensed California Building Contractor and a public entity…. No design was developed to the stage of requesting bids on construction. There was never notice for bids on the project. No bids were taken on the building of the project. The project does not exist other than a couple of vague conceptual drawings that change at the whim of the city manager… No publicly bid contract was ever let or signed. The project does not exist.
The bonds were floated after the State had already told the City not to do it. The Cut off date was Jan 31, 2011… The bonds were floated in May of 2011. The bonds were floated in public defiance of the State. The State has every right to attack them as an illegal contract. The Legislature can take over this city and take the assets to pay the bond holders back… This could get very very dark and sinister.
We’ve gone over this all during 2010-2012 and have been right 100% of the time. The city is going to waste hundreds of thousands of Dollars to find out that the must pay back the bonds and closed the RDA…. This is an exercise in insanity.
Dan, I am not talking about the project known as Pheonix. I was referring to the bonds and only the bonds.
The bonds are contracts between the bond holders and the issuing agency.
What the issuing agency does with the proceeds is an entirely different issue that I was
Speaking of.
Very recently I sat in a meeting and heard A. Patrick Munoz set out a scenario whereby he stated an option would be to sue the state in federal court. Preposterous!
In my best and faithful opinion, Munoz is an opportunist and a shyster. Check out the staff report(s) and you will see this successful shyster is owed by the city $200,000 and another $60,000 respectively for BAD LEGAL ADVICE.
This city council I would say is not corrupt, just extremely F’g stupid, absolutely gullibly and senselessly politically naive.
They continue follow bad legal advice while Rutan and Tucker gets a percentage of the overall bond debt, as well as spiked legal fees for their bad legal advice to the Oversight Board, the Successor Agency and City council.
Munoz is also a partner in Rutan & Tucker. I’ve listen to his doublespeak and sickening self-serving legal analysis and advice which has put the city in abject debt without anything to show but for administrative costs and astronomical legal fees — with no respite in sight.
The four city councilmen are awkward and backward nincompoops — who’ve intentionally done irreparable harm to the city and its people.
NO funding for the fire department, burrowing their heads in the sand on the impending lack of sewers, they provide no water, and they act without remorse and without input of the voters. It took them a year to finally come out from under the covers to finally have the courage to vote no on fire services and funding.
There is no end to the harm these four councilmen nincompoops expose the city and its residents to — and it’s not over yet, is it!
Hi Branson,
It was a 5-0 vote to pursue litigation against the State. Cora does not get a “pass” on your comments or thoughts.
Carey, I am not being testy with you but when did you pass the California Bar Exam? Perhaps you can write a legal brief and present your case… on how a shaky covenant at best — absent all the the legal requirement of a contract — is an enforceable contract.
Hey, it’s okay to opine. Yet, will you eat crow when this frivolous suit goes nowhere?
At no point did I agree or dis-agree with the Council’s decision to file a suit.
I was responding to the idea of dis-incorporation and pointing out that in today’s world, that it may do more harm than good.
Not once did I ever favor one side or the other. Just as I have in many of the times that I have written on Cactus Thorns, I am presenting a different viewpoint that might be overlooked.
I will refer you to material which I make my statements.
http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2012/09/20/should-bankrupt-california-cities-disincorporate/
In the above link the author, Cate Long, references a paper written by John H. Knox & Chris Hutchison that spells out issues concerning dis-incorporation. That paper is in the link below.
http://www.calafco.org/docs/Municipal_Disincorporation_in_California-Knox.pdf
I will let those that were elected to office by a majority, who we have entrusted our affairs to make the decisions that we have allowed by law to make.
Right or wrong, eh Carey?
I do enjoy your comments and respect the work you do on the Planning Commission. Thanks a bunch.
Carey: “I will let those that were elected to office by a majority, who we have entrusted our affairs to make the decisions that we have allowed by law to make.”
I appreciate the praise. I don’t do the job alone.
Anyone can jump up and down screaming that a system needs fixing. It takes dedicated individuals to fix the system. That does not mean that the “fix” makes everyone happy. It means that it benefits the community as a whole.
I disagree they is no contract between the bond holder and the agency, they are a simple bond investment with all the risks that bond investments entail.
There was no signed contract between the issuing agency and any investor…
I did live in La Quinta, pre-incorporation, and it was great!! We had the County Sheriff dept, just like now, for public safety; we had County Fire Dept and paramedics, just like now. Most of us “old-timers” moved out here to get away from the Palm Springs/touristy environment. There were four-wheelers going down the (sometimes dirt) roads, holding a beverage between their legs, waving at us who were outside re-finishing furniture that we bought at the local garage sale or doing our own style of artwork painting on a piece of old wood we found in an empty lot…and we were having fun. There was no large city hall building with a bunch of overpaid chair-warmers doing what, we ask? No City Manager making hundreds of thousands of dollars of our taxdollars, driving around in his new Jaguar, nor city councilmembers making full-time salaries for a few hours work, living behind gates and having no idea what is going on in their city…sitting on the dais for the paycheck and to feed their ego. Now tell me, how would we be worse off under County control?
You make some very good points, those of us that were here long before city hood remember the real 29 where there was no favoritism, and we were all pretty much treated equally, along with local commerce and shopping. No one was getting free parking lots with the funds extracted by the RDAs from schools fire ext. theaters were something for the private sector to fund, not only that The chamber was self-funded, and may I say they the chamber put on great pioneer days. No all controlling planning, the current PC does nothing but restrict wholesome commerce thereby promoting what we now see. Yes it is time for Sacramento to fast tract the elimination of Ca. very crooked and inefficient cities that are nothing but a means for the extraction of the citizen’s wealth.
Mark,
When was the last time you attended a Planning Commission meeting?
When did you attend even one Development Code review hearings?
What recommendations did you presented to the Commission at that hearing?
Do you know any of the recommendations that the commission will be forwarding to City Council concerning the Development Code review?
Q. When was the last time you attended a Planning Commission meeting?
A. Haven’t, didn’t know to be treated fairly it was an expectation.
Q. When did you attend even one Development Code review hearings?
A. Once again never have, feel like they would be a waste of time, how many years? How many meetings? And then I see the kind of _______ ______ you bozos came up with like the hawkers application, hope you aren’t looking for good job boys after that.
Q. What recommendations did you presented to the Commission at that hearing?
A. Wasn’t at the hearing, but have to say there aren’t many wholesome businesses in 29 that have been in continuous operation and family ownership in 29 for decades (1955 for the drive in, 1923 for the ranch)). Seems to me at the least the P C would seek out direction from those few businesses that have profited in 29s very hostile business environment without being one of the cronies and I am not talking about a public hearing. I don’t do hearings that I don’t control I have staff for that. I justify my rants by putting my name on the ballet from time to time. Kind of fun, people don’t often here a candidate that’s not going pander.
Q. Do you know any of the recommendations that the commission will be forwarding to City Council concerning the Development Code review?
A. no I don’t, have to wonder what value the citizens received for this very costly review ( over a million of the taxpayers funds}that once again been going on for how long? When I see the activity and commerce going on in JT I would have been happy with the common sense approach use county codes it would have saved a million plus and years. How many potential businesses have been stifled by the lack luster PC performance?
So Mark, in other words you have no idea what you are talking about.
Never been there, didn’t offer any suggestions, and don’t know what has been done.
But, you are willing to be a Keyboard Warrior and blast us for something you haven’t got a clue about.
Hey I seen enough with the hawker application, asking for a SS # even you should have known better than that, It showed how the PC has no understanding of the citizens’ rights or the laws of the land. Penalty of perjury without statute, you guys are off you ________ rocker.
Open your eyes when you drive through town, yes my friend it is on your shoulders along with the rest of the PC.
My style as a business owner is not to get onto micro managing the details, I want results from those that serve. No different for those that serve the public I expect results or I am going to be on your ass. If the heat gets to you do use all a favor and get out of the kitchen
The Application? The Commission did not create that document. The Finance Department created it based off State Laws and what whatever requirements that entails.
The Commission does understand the laws and the citizens rights and we work with in those confines. Dan was acceptable of the Hawking and Peddling code. I even spoke to him about it as he is the “resident expert” on the matter.
By the way Keyboard Warrior, I was talking about the entire Development Code not just one chapter. We have reviewed many chapters adding uses and taking out many of the hurdles that were in the current code. We have streamlined many processes.
Even in the Commercial Zoning there were many items that were added. But you wouldn’t know that would you?
There was such a interest in the General Plan that there were people there at every meeting. Did you know Keyboard Warrior, that there are no consultants helping us with the Development Code? No, you wouldn’t know that would you?
You are almost correct about one thing. It is on our shoulders that we leave to the future the best that we can to the citizens of Twentynine Palms.
But did you know that it is also on your shoulders? No, you wouldn’t know that would you?
And as far as heat and kitchens go, I’m a pretty good cook Keyboard Warrior.
“…I would have been happy with the common sense approach use county codes it would hae saved a million plus and years…”. AGAIN, I REPEAT, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF INCORPORATION INTO A CITY? DISINCOPORATION IS THE ONLY ANSWER. Use County Codes!!!
Do your homework. No they are not.
Most County Codes are more outdated, more stringent, and more cumbersome.
As both a Licensed construction Contractor and now as a food service business owner I would have to disagree with you. In fact I would have to totally disagree with you. I have dealt with San Bernardino, Riverside and Kern Counties…. I’ve never had the hassles doing business in the counties as I have in 29 Palms. It is far easier doing business in Yucca Valley than it is in 29 Palms.
Most things that are done by the county are done at the counter. Mind you you might have to jump thru a hoop or two but most things will be approved without planning commission involvement.
You can not do much of anything that is not expressly been approved by the Planning Commission in this town… This leads to a lack of innovation. The frustration of having to deal with the simplest of changes in the development code that takes several months if not years drives folks out their minds and out of town…. It is much easier to open a business in Joshua Tree that is an absolute fact.
Now do I commend you Carey and the Commission in your attempt to make the development code easier? Yes I do. It is wonderful. But it has take 3 years to get to this point and the way things are moving it will take another year before you are ready for the Council to vote on anything…. I swear it is like watching paint drying.
I never said all county codes, I said most.
I agree with you that the current codes are an issue. I have time and time again said that the Commission is work on changing that.
But, until we are done and give them to the City Council and then they approve the changes, the current Codes are all that I can go on.
The current Codes, whether I like it or not they are the Codes. I can not, will not violate the code that were approved by the City Council.
The Commission can not willy nilly pick and choice to enforce the Codes that the City Council approved, most long before I joined the Commission.
Again, we are working to streamline and make common sense Codes that meet the needs of the City.
I have asked, begged, challenged people to come and help us do the job that we were entrusted to do. We want input from everyone. We want honest, workable solutions to some of the problems that hampers growth in the City.
Citizens were up in arms when the General Plan was being rewritten. Where is the input that drove that but not the Development Code?
Does anyone out there realize that the General Plan is just a guide? And that the Development Code is the real power?
Here is another challenge. Instead of being a Keyboard Warrior, either take action in order to do what they have been talking about or stop talking about it.
Well, there’s the problem right there…City Council’s have to approve the Codes. I don’t know your Councilmembers, but out here in La Quinta, we have a group of five who live behind gates and would not know how to buy a left-handed hammer. The City Manager (Frankie/RSG – they are very adept at that)and City Attorney/Rutan-Tucker tell them what to do and they harumph, harumph, and push the green button so they can get to the early bird special. They are great at hiring consultants to do the work for them and our overpaid staff,…I will give them credit for that. That’s is what they would do here, hire another consultant to write the code…in fact, that is what they are doing for our new money-making TOT code…what a surprise!
LINDAG, I mentioned in an earlier post that there are no consultants involved in reviewing the changes to the current code.
And your right you don’t know our City Council or it’s makeup.
We have a past Community Development Director turned Planning Consultant on the Council. We have a former Planning Commissioner and long time businessman. We have a Postal employee who, probably seen more of this City than most. We have a school teacher who hears the issues from a whole other level than most. We have a former employee of MCCS who handled contracts on base. (simplified descriptions but you get the idea)
Then there are the members of the Planning Commission itself.
The review and rewrite of the Development Code could have gone a completely different direction.
The law states that the Code need only be consistent with the General Plan. That means that there could have just been a few changes made. And that could have been over time. The opinions of the staff, the Commission and the final decision the look at the entire Code was the Council’s decision.
So here we are today. Going thru line-by-line, word-by-word looking for the ridiculous, the un-enforcable, un-thinkable and getting rid of it. We are adding uses, conditions, simplified language so that there is a consistent streamlined code that will work for the majority. (in other words- not everyone will be happy)
The biggest complaints that I have heard and that all the Keyboard Warriors keep screaming is that the Codes are too restrictive. I can’t fault them for saying that.
Everybody wants to do the right thing, but the hard legal reality is the the current Codes are the current Codes. Be patient, help us out we are almost there.
As much as all the Keyboard Warriors want change, where are they as we are going thru the review of the codes? There have been only 5 people that have ever came to the hearings. 3 I know personally the other 2 I think were lost and didn’t want to be rude and leave in the middle of the hearing. We have received only 2 written comments.
So if you follow any of my posts here on Cactus Thorns you know that I present as much of the facts as I can to dis-spell the rumors and mis-conceptions as I can. I ask that those with thoughts and ideas bring them before the Commission and not just sit back and be a Keyboard Warrior.
Gee Branson, I could swear you were talking about the City of La Quinta Council, being led by Rutan and Tucker and RSG consultants….down the yellow brick road of debt. Nincompoops! haha, I don’t even know where to begin to describe what goes on here in LaLaLaQuintaland.
Steve,
You are right, I shouldn’t get a pass on this vote. I could make a whole lot of excuses but I won’t. One thing that may not have been said, is the 200,000 put on the last ROPS was put in as litigation fees, non-specific litigation. and it was ok’d by the DOF. While I don’t believe that it is a sign from the DOF that they want us to sue, all I can offer is that it is coming out of the tax increment stream, instead of the general fund. I do understand that the tax increment is and always has been the “peoples” money, so it is of small consolation but was the only thing that tipped my no to yes.
Hi Cora,
What’s the deal on the “closed session” without comments on citizen input?
Branson,
Sorry just saw this question. It is embarrassing to admit that I am ignorant about some things. I really need to become better informed and learn to put my money where my mouth is.
In my opinion, you are absolutely right that the “closed session” regarding Project Phoenix should have been a public discussion.
An arguement for some litigation is to not give away the city’s strategy, but in this case the strategy has been laid out many times in the public records, ie memos and letters to and from DOF. so to me that doesn’t hold water.
OMG YOU GUYS!!! She is already drunk on the kool-aid is starting the SPIN! Holy Christ that happens fast…they have got that down to an art…the sell, the pitch, and she is bending over. Wow, Cora. I don’t know you but I do know that you had a lot of support on this blog…but whoah…you are already starting the “it is not real money…it is coming out of the TAX INCREMENT STREAM”..ALREADY USING THE LANGUAGE. Its the pot-o-gold-in-the-sky bank account, not the taxpayers money! Not money that should be used for schools or other useful purposes..no its our tax money that is going into the fat wallets for more bad legal representation and consultants who will get their cut of the taxdollar. Voting Lockstep…tick, tick, tick, you are getting sleepier and sleepier. Count backwards and open your eyes,,,you are fully indoctrinated. Oh Cora, I hope it was worth selling your soul for this gig. SAD…SO SAD. You really don’t believe these lawsuits are going to accomplish anything do you, except make those lawyers money..the school children and the veterans who fought for your rights are…well, you know..this is really depressing.
LindaG,
Look, no one hates RDA more than I. I am totally against any Government Agency that can issue bonds, capture tax money, play favorites, steal from schools and hospitals without public support.
Did I act in accordance with my personal truth last night? No. Have I learned from it yes.
Hi Cora, no need to be embarrassed. As one former 29 CC member told me, there is a huge learning curve when becoming a councilmember.
I just want to say I opine that the City Manager and A. Patrick Munoz are bullies. Both Warne and Rutan & Tucker got exactly what they wanted Tuesday — a closed meeting out of sight of the public. Rutan & Tucker needs to be fired or better put “shitcanned.”
While the city manager works largely behinds the scenes, Munoz is in your face with his bullshit staccato-style legalese to razzle-dazzle and overwhelm the city council, the Successor Agency and the Oversight Board (which he has no freaking business taking a seat as staff on the OB meetings — and he absolutely dominates the OB meetings, while OB members sit there brainless.
Munoz says he’s not their legal council but he damn well gives them legal advice and can’t even communicate legal concepts… He uses this advantage like a shyster.
View the city’s videos on the Oversight Board… Why on Earth is the city paying this man to be seated as staff on the oversight Board? — at a spiked hourly rate because it deals with redevelopment.
It seems the city council and the Oversight Board likes it this way since they have their respective ulterior motives.
I hope so.