Everything is not fine in 29.
The errant meteor that slammed into Chelyabinsk created a shock wave explosion that caused most of the damage. There are about 500,000 near-Earth objects the same size as the Chelyabinsk meteor. Less than 1 percent have been discovered by NASA.
Altogether the Chelyabinsk shock-wave damaged more than 4,000 buildings, 1000 people injured, including 200 children.
If a large near-Earth object hit in our area the base would be on lockdown, and Joshua Tree and Yucca Valley would be overloaded with emergency call for engines and firefighters.
On February 12 this month the water district was left with a “sink or swim” problem presented by the city. City officially took a position to “stay out of water board business.”
The intended consequences is that the city will not fund or help fund a struggling fire department. Consequently, the water district has the responsibility to make safe the residents of Twentnine Palms.
The is a catch. It’s “Catch-22. ” Although the water board oversees the fire department they cannot directly fund the fire department.
The effect of insufficient funding and digressing to three firefighters (one engine) will create “a zone danger” within the borders of Twentynine Palms.
Natural occurring events reminds us that we are not in control of events we have no control over: high-energy solar flares, near-Earth space objects, flooding, errant storm cells, or earthquakes and day-to-day emergencies.
There is even expected danger if larger structures catch fire like schools, shopping centers or hotels. It may be “the business of the water department” — but common sense tells us it’s also the business of the city.
The water board has to shoulder all these responsibilities and find funding for the fire department. Things are much different than they were about fifty years ago when the water district was first formed.
Being prepared for emergencies and day-to-day public safety is the business of the city.
The city should reconsider its policy to stay out of water district business.
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29 Palms Council Council Meeting -Tuesday, February 12
Ben you are a boob, plain and simple. If ANY of your fantasy scenarios happen, 50 fire trucks and 300 men aren’t going to save us… get your head out of your ass and look at reality every now and again. It will do you some good.
Don’t feed the city hall troll.
Nor the village idiot.
Looks like someone is trying to ensure they aren’t the next City employee forced to resign….excuse me “retire”.
Isn’t it about time that the homeowners and renters start taking care of themselves? fire extinguishers, in cars and home, new batteries in the fire and smoke detectors,Water hoses set for protection of the first sign of a fire,watching out for oily rags, dangerous items in home and garage. We can’t always expect the fire Dept to save us, what if there is 5 fires at the same time in the town and 4 fire engines manned? we might be the last to receive help so we must prepare ourselves..My son was a fire fighter here in this town years ago before he moved, paid I think $4 or $5 a run, not much but those guys are a GOd Send to ua all.When we don’t protect our own homes, we take the chance of a death of a fire fighter. About time we realize we are not to be baby sat by the fire Dept. I have lived here for over 50 years, and my daughter watched as her home burnt to the ground because the fire dept went the wrong way…. nothing left, but rubble.. and they were given directions over the phone.A very costly mistake… so if she had thought that a fire truck might not make it to her home in time, she would have been more ptepared to put it out or at least lesson the damage…
We must start thinking that the Sheriff and Fire Dept and ambulance might not make it in time and we should prepare.. not just sit back and wait for them to respond.. my two cents..
“Think about injecting competition into every city service. Entrepreneurial governments have discovered that when organizations must compete for funding, they keep their costs down, respond quickly to changing demands and strive mightily to satisfy their customers.” [emphasis in original]
—David Osborne,
@Jeanne & Rescue Guy,
You both raise very good points. We have seemed to have forgotten that it is individual responsibility that brings about freedom, liberty, and justice for all. It is very easy to slip into the thought that our safety is guaranteed, and it is not. However, we do have the right to protect ourselves and our property,and that right brings about the responsibility of which you speak.
Both of you are correct in the assumption that should a huge catastophe happen, there could never be enough firemen or safety personnel, however I don’t see that as an excuse to cut public safety. Neither do I see it as an excuse to abdicate personal responsibility to do all the things mentioned in Jeanne’s post. I would even add that I personally need to take CERT training and renew my CPR. We never know when we ourselves can provide needed life saving measures to strangers or loved ones.
As Benjamin Franklin said “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”
That’s what the post is all about,the city reconsider and pay up. Help out with emergencies and fire protection in their city.
Being prepared is an important issue. I’ve been advocating it for years.
The other issue shouldn’t get lost in the scuffle. The city’s “get-tough” policy, while the water district is left with the increasing burden of providing a fire department for the city.
The problems were brought on namely after city ratepayers stopped funding their fire department.
All things considered, a reduction in fire safety works against the best interests of the people and businesses.
I challenge “Troll to the Rescue” to pick one of the many important issues in the Morongo Basin and write a story about it.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: *a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response, or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.*
Just because I think you are an idiot and a sky is falling blowhard does not make me a troll. Others here seem to agree.
no, but it does make you seem hypocritical. he calls you a troll, you call him an idiot. just saying
Ben we have some major issues coming soon. When the private bankers keep interest rate at near zero it forces those that want to save into the volatile markets, bonds stocks ect. even Cal Pers is dependent on the artificial propped up markets. These markets are at a cusp of a major correction, most likely in the next few months. Hold on, It is going to be a wild ride for retirement and pensions that are heavy in the markets.
When those pension funds are unable to keep up due to the crash they will go to the enrolled entities demanding they fulfill their obligations with increased funding.
Seldom do I agree with the actions of the city but in this instance not obligating the city to acquire the water district pensions is the right move.
I agree that CalPers future predictions are unreliable. Sometimes they don’t even take advice from their own chief actuary. That is scary! However, as far as I know, there was never a discussion about the city taking over district pensions. Where is this coming from?
Just the fire department portion of the cal pers obligation would be transferred to the city is my understanding, That unknown is why I put the idea out that if the city was to have a fire department it would be less costly in the long run to start a new department, not only that the WD could keep what would be necessary for the district coverage (lear) outside of city limits.
All in all I agree with Cora about further discussion may have been useful.
I know when there is a shortfall in operating funds the private sector can usually find someplace to cut cost while maintaining the service level, but then again that is the private sector. Any thought about putting fire protection out to bid. You would not be looking for the lowest bidder you would be looking for who could provide and invest the most with the limited funds available.
Just want to add one more thought, my past experience has showed me that the private sector rarely spends half of what a government entity spends for the same capital investment, pension, ext. Is that waste or bureaucracy doing what it does, spend it or lose it?
These are difficult questions to answer in one post. I will do my best to answer them while providing some perspective on the fire situation. Like you, I earn my living in the private sector and I agree that profitability is an engine for ingenuity and efficiency. I also acknowledge that government has a tendency to lack ingenuity and adaptability. I think this stems from a combination of virtually guaranteed income streams, limited competition, and political pressure groups. However, our fire department is somewhat unique in that it does not have a viable revenue stream and the board has welcomed competition by looking into proposals from County and examining Cal Fire. I acknowledge that there are still political pressures and I think that is why this situation is so tense. The fact is that our community has a fire station that operates outside of the city limits, but still provides the primary response engine for part of the city population. The difference in constituencies makes a complex problem even more difficult to fix. Furthermore, the initial tax measure that was approved by the board was defeated, which makes it hard for other agencies to justify committing supplemental revenue. With inflation diminishing the value of the fixed fire tax, even County could not use their economies of scale to provide enough firefighters to ensure the ISO rating would remain stable for the next 5 years. In the first year, County’s plan would be operating less than 40 thousand dollars in the black with the current revenue stream. While considering this information, the board was shown a 5 year model from 29 Fire staff that does meet ISO requirements for 5 years while still operating over 100 thousand in the black in the first year. Given this information, the board opted to maintain control of fire service. Meanwhile at the City, staff provided Council with 3 options for fire service: enter into a JPA with the district, supplement the fire department directly, or submit a LAFCO application in an attempt to force fire services to County. None of these options shifted current firefighter pension obligations to the City. The Council ultimately opted to reject all three options and instead chose to do nothing and stay out of district business.
In past meetings, the board has shown that it is willing to tackle its liabilities and attempt to conform to the new realities. Something some local agencies have yet to do. Fortunately, CalPers has reformed their models, which will hopefully reduce pension costs in the future. That said, there is no guarantee that unfunded liabilities wont continue to increase for all organizations paying into government pensions and private retirement options are not immune to economic turmoil. Furthermore, we cannot control the State and Federal activity that is responsible for much of this turmoil. All we can do locally is attempt to mitigate the damage. Perhaps there is a more efficient model in the private sector. I am not sure how the public feels about that solution, but it doesn’t hurt to look into it. That said, shifting to the private sector is not a solution to the ultimate problem. The fact is that the 29 Palms community does not have a sustainable source of funding for fire protection. We can thank our state for causing this problem. Until there is a sustainable source, even the most efficient plan possible will eventually require cutbacks. We are in a pickle and I don’t see a viable solution except for continuous downsizing, a successful tax measure, or steady revenue from an unexpected source.
As far as the “spend it or lose it” model goes, I have seen both private and public agencies use this method. I think it is silly and promotes wasteful/selfish tendencies in management. Fortunately, fire tax revenue cannot be diverted to fund nonfire projects. Furthermore, our department is relatively small, which makes oversight much easier.
If anyone has fresh ideas on this issue, I would love to hear them. Thank you.
Please remember that the opinions I have shared are my own and may not be shared by the collective district board.
Thanks Chancy for your response and time, the citizens are lucky you are on the board, thumbs up and five stars.
Interesting read
The private sector provides fire-protection service in one of two ways: either by contract or
subscription. Contract service is offered to local governments or special fire districts; subscription
service is offered to residents or property owners.
In the case of contract fire-protection service, the officially designated representatives of a local
jurisdiction (usually a town, city, or special tax district) award a private-sector company the right to
service that jurisdiction for a specified time period, typically from one to five years. The company is
paid a fixed and contractually agreed upon sum, either through the jurisdiction’s general tax revenues
or through a special fire tax levied by the jurisdiction.
In the case of subscription fire-protection service, individual property owners or residential
associations contract directly with a private company for fire-protection service. As in the case of
contract fire-protection service, the contract is set for a specified time period, usually one year, and
the company is paid a fixed and contractually agreed upon sum, which may vary depending on the
value or size of the property in question.
@Chancey and Mark,
Thank you both for intelligent conversation regarding a complex issue, and if the issue had been approached by this same attitude and respect, I do believe answers could have been found that would have worked for the citizens of 29.
I am not pointing fingers, just making an observation, based on public discussion.
Mark,
You swallowed the false information hook, line and sinker that Richard Warne, our lying (since we know he isn’t incompetent) City Manager, put out to scare people away from doing what’s right by the Fire Dept.
I will type slowly here for you and the others that never bothered to fact-check him. The City WAS NEVER GOING TO INCUR the CalPers costs.
This was CLEARLY explained at several Water District meetings (that Richard Warne never bothered to attend). In fact, Warne’s scare tactic CalPers obligation wasn’t even real. It would ONLY actually became a reality (FOR THE WATER DISTRICT) if the District divested themselves of the Fire Dept and thus triggered the lump-sum, one-time deposit to cover their leaving workers. Otherwise the District would simply continue to pay the normal (and budgeted for) yearly costs of CalPers retirement coverage.
Whether the Dept went to County (less service/higher cost) or the City took it over (never was presented as an option) the CalPers obligation would STAY WITH the Water District as legacy debt.
Well it worked on four councilmen, they were looking for an excuse — any excuse — and found one and went with the lie.
Fact check, or as Reagan said trust but verify. going by what was presented when bureaucrats give explanations without versification well it just troubling. I am not a Warren fan but come on. show us the beef, in this case maybe chapter and verse would be appropriate.
Mr. Clemons, I challenge you to provide information on private sector fire departments to include pay and benefits. I would like to ask some questions regarding privatizing the fire department. 1. What would prevent the privatize fire department from instituting fees for certain fire department services? I believe they will not have to get approval from any city or district board to increase or implement their own fees. 2. Will they offer less then comparable pay and benefits than that of other agencies? If so what would prevent those firefighters from jumping ship first chance they get. 3. If pay and benefits are higher than other agencies, wouldn’t the community and the fire department be in the same boat as it is in now? Reading some of you other post, you spoke very highly about county fire department taking over fire services and now it’s privatizing the fire department, why the change?
Q. Mr. Clemons, I challenge you to provide information on private sector fire departments to include pay and benefits.
A. On a federal government contract they would fall under the service contract act
The current hourly rate for a private fire fighter is $25.20 H&W $3.71 Have not research the rate for a municipality, most likely set by the council. Main thing no Cal Pers.
Q. What would prevent the privatize fire department from instituting fees for certain fire department services.
A. The contract they enter with the governing entity, think Burrtec
Q. 2. Will they offer less then comparable pay and benefits than that of other agencies? If so what would prevent those firefighters from jumping ship first chance they get.
A. the question should be will other agencies follow the lead if 29 breaks with the status quo, the market is the best equalizer,. We should hire locals that are loyal to their community. There are many fine men and woman that are retiring from the service that would suit the task just fine, they could supplement their retirement with firefighting. Most are looking to do a little double dipping.
Q. Reading some of you other post, you spoke very highly about county fire department taking over fire services and now it’s privatizing the fire department, why the change?
A. I still speak highly of county fire, I said and will say again that bureaucrats and administrators always manipulate and position for the most extraction of public funds, county fire is no different in that respect. They are a government department and as all others they are empire building and yearn for expansion and funds. They should have an opportunity to bid on the service just as private sector, state and our friends to the north. We need to look at who can provide the most for the limited funds available.
We all have to live within our means, yes inflation is understated just ask some of those on SS. What sacrifices do they have to go through due to the same inflation that put the fire department upside down.
in case you missed it in my earlier post Link