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Republicans and Democrats See Eye-to-Eye Against Measure U

By   /   October 9, 2012  /   67 Comments

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Yucca Valley, Ca.-Opposition to Measure U is uniting  parties across the aisle.

S.B. COUNTY REPUBLICAN LIBERTY CAUCUS OPPOSES U

The San Bernardino County Chapter of the Republican Liberty Caucus is opposing this tax.  The RLCSB members debated and took positions on the November local ballot measures:

“NO  Measure U- City of Yucca Valley 1% Sales Tax Increase Measure U would authorize a 1% sales tax on Yucca Valley citizens for 30 years. The unfortunate consequence of most local sales taxes is a shift of business away from local businesses to surrounding towns where the tax does not exist. This is extremely harmful to the local business economy, and may actually reduce the town revenue.”  >>>>link here

 

LOCAL DEMOCRATIC CLUB OPPOSES MEASURE U

“The local Morongo Basin Democratic Club is opposed to tax issued a statement opposing Measure U. The Club, which typically supports tax initiatives, indicated that Measure U was a vaguely-worded regressive tax. See Press Release >>>>link here

 

MORONGO BASIN PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION OPPOSE MEASURE U

In a recent report on the website, Vote No Measure U, a similar observation of diverse organizations uniting against Measure U. “Opposition to Measure U Unites Disparate Political Elements. ” Story>>>>link here

 

YUCCA VALLEY REPUBLICAN WOMEN REMOVE PRO-MEASURE U FROM THEIR WEBSITE

The local Republican Women’s Club has not taken a stand against this General Fund Tax due to local political pressures. One YVRWF Board member has a vested interest  in resolving her legacy of debt even though she ran on a No Tax platform. In a cleverly disguised “Press Release” the President (aka Webmaster) placed this pro-tax statement on their website without disclaimers, Board approval or General Membership approval. After contacting the State Republican Women Federated, I spoke with several members opposed to Measure U. This “Press Release” was scrubbed from their website without fanfare and now states a large disclaimer on each page.

 

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About the author

Margo Sturges

Yucca Valley Editor

Note: Margo Sturges has written many articles for Cactus Thorns and is the founder of Citizens4Change.info. Email contact: MargoSturgesYV(at)aol.com "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."- George Orwell

67 Comments

  1. Z107.7 URGES A YES VOTE ON MEASURE "U" IN YUCCA VALLEY

    I urge a NO VOTE because U is a sham and everybody knows it. Do it the right way. Vote the money be used for the sewer projects, nothing else. "U" is a sham because it funding follies, parks, street repairs and who know what else. The money with the passage of "U" will be diverted to a general fund. Crazy is as crazy does.

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    • Tim Humphreville Tim Humphreville says:

      That's funny, You urge a no vote. You have no vote! That is the great thing about measure u, The people who live outside of Yucca Valley, and use our infrastructure will have to contribute to this community. Just living as cheap as you can without contributing to the community is what has been happening here for to long. when measure U passes this community will give opportunity to the next generation of families to have the great place to live and work, and to raise their families in, It is a very small sacrifice to give for the future here.

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      • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

        I know this is going to come back to haunt me.... But A guy going over to Wally World and spending a few bucks on a TV or buying a dozen Bananas is indeed contributing to the Community of Yucca Valley in the most direct way possible, in that the Town benefits from the transaction in many ways. To suggest that every visit to your town is a drain on the resources of your fair community is absolute Balderdash. The Basin contributes all it should.

        The rest of the basin has little if nothing to do with the piss poor planning of your Town Fathers in allowing unbridled growth and the associated problems that now loom on the horizon.

        We in the rest of the Basin don't owe you in the Town of Yucca Valley a single extra penny. The State Highways are State Highways and would be there whether the Town of Yucca Valley existed or not. The only difference is we would be able to rapidly get through the area without the incessant stoplights.

        While I believe the raising of sales and use taxes in the town of Yucca Valley counter productive, it will be great for other communities and their business prospects.

        While commercial property values will dramatically increase in value in Joshua Tree and points east and west of the Town limits, the eventual unintended consequence to the Town of Yucca Valley will be a slow but steady decline in tax income as businesses move to friendly locales. Thirty years of a self imposed handicap, will have an accumulative effect upon the towns economy. It will eventually be a burden that will not be borne by small business and they will travel a few miles to the east or west to remain competitive. It is not the first time a small town prices itself out of business.

        I imagine 29 Palms City and County officials, along with real estate brokers are not so secretly hoping for the passage of Measure U. There are just so many ways to cut the economic pie and a finite amount of that pie in the Basin as a whole. Any advantage can tip the scale.

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        • Many of us in the Basin agree with this comment.

          There may be one flaw in your comment which is not of your doing. 29 Palms trails Yucca Valley in terms of sewer projects. It's just a matter of time before the city will have to work on sewers projects.

          How? BY RAISING TAXES since the state has already thrown out the red flag on 29. The city can't get another debt Bond since it just recently took out a $31 million bond without a vote or citizens input for a structure to house a wasteful city theater when they already have one.

          In the future, both Yucca and 29 may have new taxes to pay for sewer projects . But, unlike YV, I don't believe 29 won't try to hoodwink voters by pouring over all those funds into the general fund, rather than seriously funding sewers.

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      • FYI, Tim, I support a sale tax increase for sewer projects in your town which I will pay for.

        This vote has plenty to do with me as my wallet will be open for the city to take their cut every time I buy something in Y.V.

        Why would you deny me a voice in something that shall impact me financially the rest of my live. Yes we residents in the Morongo Valley use Yucca Valley's infrastructure, but we also pay for that infrastructure.

        Note I do not support Measure U because for the next 30 years this tax will be commingled with the general fund. From there, it will be arbitrarily used for other projects such as parks, street improvements, and other unknown projects at the whim of the town manager.

        Don't rely on sewer money to pay for regular general fund city spending. Get the priorities right.

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        • Tim Humphreville Tim Humphreville says:

          Dan,and Ben For as long as i can remember local politicians have been running for election here saying they were going to fix the roads and flood control issues here in Yucca Valley, And for as long as i can remember they get in office and realise that if they do what they said that they would not be able to get reelected. That the only way feasible to do this would be to have a sales tax. Dan maybe you need to look at your own community, and the issues that you have if you have to come to yucca Valley to buy your bananas, or TVs. sounds to me like you have a anti business problem there that you need to work on. Ben your story is different, you choose to live in a village that, thinks that business is the root of all evil. That any development is a crime. So you are forced to shop here. Did you know that Yucca Valley loses 85 acre feet of water to your aquifer every year ? Do you think that you guys would have the water supply that you have if we had figured out a way to stop that years ago? people from Joshua Tree come here and use our parks, restaurants,road infrastructure,and the development that you guys choose to push away. you could have your own infrastructure if you did not have the nimby ism that you all choose to have. So till then i think it is great that you contribute to this community that you need, To live without your own development. This council deserves credit for putting this community ahead of their own political futures,The people of Yucca Valley have wanted this for some time. We will see in just a month what the people of Yucca Valley desire for the future.

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          • Steve Spear Steve Spear says:

            Hi Tim,

            It was good seeing you the other day.

            I need to correct you on some points if I may.

            29 Palms has not driven any business at all from the city - that is a falsehood that others, not you, have spread over the years and it just seems to stick and also is just plain false.

            29 Palms has no more onerous codes than does Yucca Valley. I am sure you are familiar with the Buxton report and the findings.

            What Yucca Valley has and will have for many years into the future is a premier geographical location. Once 29 Palms figures a way to place about 28,000 people east of the city then it too will have the commerce that Yucca Valley enjoys today.

            As you are aware 29 Palms has a larger population than Yucca Valley but unfortunately approximately 13,000 of that population live, work, and spend on a military installation that has no sales tax at all.

            Even Yucca Valley is competing against MCCS(Marine Corps Community Services) corporation that is in business for profit. Many do not realize that the old MWR(Moral, Welfare and Recreation)system has been privatized.

            Nonetheless Measure "U" in the final analysis is a Yucca Valley voters decision. We who live outside of the city limits may have ideas either pro or con but in the end what we as outsiders say or feel means little. Only those that are registered to vote in the city of Yucca Valley can decide the outcome of Measure "U".

            I wish you luck and I am looking forward to seeing you again in June.

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            • Larry Briggs Larry Briggs says:

              Well said Steve. The one thing I'm seeing and hearing in this discussion and at the "town" council meeting is that now Yucca Valley is a "city". When it was incorpoated, the powers that be were very adamant that they would be a "town" and not a "city". Town sounds so much more upscale. What has changed over there in the last 20 years?

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            • Steve Spear Steve Spear says:

              Thanks Larry,

              I would imagine that what name we apply to a community be it "Town", "City", "Village", "Hamlet", or even "Oasis" does not change the fundamental infrastructure requirements that the "community" needs or desires.

              As I have said before, 29 Palms had a golden opportunity to define itself anew and to draw up a new and bold marketing strategy so as to not have to compete with the geographical center of the basin in terms of retail sales.

              We had that chance when we embarked upon a new General Plan. In my estimation that chance to be something other than a retail competitor of the Base and Yucca Valley was lost when once again our leaders took the shotgun approach.

              By that I mean they decided, in order to not to offend anyone, to develop a mission statement that even the Allies in World War II could not have achieved. They wrote a mission statement that reflects a little of everything for everyone and every special interest and focuses on nothing.

              I already have seen that Yucca Valley is not making that same mistake in their current re-write of their General Plan. They have focus and know a very basic fact of community growth and development that continues to elude 29 Palms.

              If everything is important then nothing is important.

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            • Tim Humphreville Tim Humphreville says:

              Steve, You have never stated a more true fact,the competition with the base is tough for us all. The last straw for us all could be the expansion in the Johnson valley off road area. those tourist dollars mean a lot to all of us. They have been terrible neighbors as of late. Them giving the environmentalist groups 425,000 dollars to buy the section of property between Yucca and Joshua tree was just a crime. That money that is supposed to be for national security, They hurt this community for a long time to come. I would love to talk to the person who made that decision

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              Agree 1000% !!!

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            • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

              I am sorry Steve but when you spew crap like this “29 Palms has not driven any business at all from the city – that is a falsehood that others, not you, have spread over the years and it just seems to stick and also is just plain false.” I’ am going to call you out that is just plan BS. How much is the base Payroll? You think someone hasn’t harness that with a Texas roadhouse or some other of the same caliber.
              Get the god dam city out of the way and I myself will build, they the city is why we have the lake or the type of business we have period, it is not from some well paid consultants report.

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            • Steve Spear Steve Spear says:

              Hi Mark,

              I know of no business that did not come to 29 because of onerous codes. I know off places like Target and Walgreen's that did not come here due to profitability models of their own design.

              I know of several businesses that opted to locate on Base due to the profit margin associated with low overhead by using/renting an already existing structure in the MCCS system as compared to building a brand new building in town.

              I know of businesses that understand the multimillion dollar payroll of the Base is being lured into staying on Base by the competitive nature of MCCS as it relates the communities of the Morongo Basin.

              But I am sorry I know of no business that the city told "stay away. We do not want you and if you insist on coming to 29 then we will code you into oblivion", Sorry just not aware of that at all.

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              Walgreens?

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            • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

              Steve, we might not be able too see eye to eye but here goes
              Let’s see a man buys some commercial in the accommodating city of 29, pays taxes lets the various civic organizations use his property free of charge over the many years, Public works , school buses, water districts, gas and other utilities use his road.
              He spent fifty grand plus to design, soil test, and start the permitting process for an indoor theater. In that very draconian process the city said wait a minute we don’t want a building like that, we want to determine what colors what material ++++++. The man said I will go elsewhere.
              Years later he contacted a local builder who in the past got things past planning ( Nazis )and the council you may remember with nothing more than hand drawn plot plans on standard notebook paper, it was a no go when it was for the hard working charitable man. This man is my eighty + year old father, that you thought should not be able to make an extra couple of bucks having a swap meet inside his overtaxed theater.
              Steve if you can’t see the damage this city has done to commerce and peoples personal wealth, I doubt it does much good to try and point out the atrocities.
              Remember retail is just a portion of businesses that have been stifled, look at what they do to a tradesman trying to be legal, or the way they shun the service industry.
              Let’s pray change is on its way, I would be fine without the city and the citizens of 29 would be better off.

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            • Steve Spear Steve Spear says:

              Where to start with Dan and Mark?

              Dan this is easy. You know that plot of land that once had a furniture store on it with a mural? Well that building is not there anymore and that mural is gone. That mural removal caused a select few in the community to get upset when Walgreens pulled out of building on that lot. Remember now?

              Mark you are a bit more difficult to answer. But that has been pointed out to you by many others.

              Your issues with 29 Palms just do not even closely compare to the evaluations that major corporations make when they are deciding to locate here in 29 Palms or not.

              What you perceive to be onerous and overly restrictive codes are just small potatoes for the likes of Target and Walgreens.

              In the big scheme of things your operation, as appreciated as it is, is just not comparable to what I am talking about.

              I and others have offered you help in your dealings with city hall and you have always refused the assistance which is you prerogative.

              But to confuse your refusal for mediation and assistance with an obstructionist city hall is just not forthright.

              I, and many others, wish you well.

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            • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

              Steve, you really have confused me. Recently you told me that you wrote me off long ago and to "Stick with the mountains it suits you better. You don’t see me messing around in your tree bark beetle issues or your perceived problem with the roads up there in the mountains"

              Then yesterday you said speaking of yourself "We who live outside of the city limits may have ideas either pro or con but in the end what we as outsiders say or feel means little. Only those that are registered to vote in the city of Yucca Valley can decide the outcome of Measure “U”.

              Sorry, I can't understand why you can insert yourself into the concerns of Yucca Valley when you don't live there. But when it comes to me, I'm not allowed to speak because I'm not a full time resident?

              FWIW I think you have made some valid points and I think it would be a shame if your input was not part of the debate even though you don't live in Yucca Valley.

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            • Steve Spear Steve Spear says:

              Hi Papa,

              I guess I am just an old fart that thinks local politics is just that - local.

              When I spoke of bark beetles and roads up in the mountains I was not being flippant.

              Although I have been up there for Sheriff's business and I have seen what is going on, just seeing it is not the same as your perspective from actually living up there, and really "knowing" or at least thinking we "know" what is happening in our own communities.

              Probably a far stretch - but I am tired of outside influence on local politics through the use of money. So.... I may have an opinion on what Yucca Valley may or may not do to itself, but in the end, in my estimation, it is up to the voters of Yucca Valley to decide.

              If I do not like the 1% sales tax then I need not buy anything in Yucca Valley as I do now on occasion. I can always use the internet for most of my needs.

              Should I need to buy some home improvement items at Home Depot I can always buy from Lowes in Palm Desert as I have done on many occasion because they deliver for free if I spend enough.

              Options are available and one of my options is to keep my mouth shut about Yucca Valley because I don't live there and I can avoid spending there.

              Convoluted and possibly a very weak answer to your legitimate question but it is what it is.

              Thanks for the inquiry.

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            • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

              Thanks Steve. In this case convoluted is ok with me. Sometimes what others may perceive about us or what we're thinking can actually be the opposite of the truth or what we intended for them to think. In simple terms I guess that's a misunderstanding or a gaff.

              On Measure U and other local topics I usually don't chime in because I, as a local in a small town understand how there's usually much more to the story than a one liner headline or a local colloquialism can describe. As for the bark-beetles infestation, they disappeared about the same time as 7th Heaven got cancelled. Anyhow, I'm getting ready for the big cat fight tonight. In this corner, My favorite VP and lap dog of all time and I'm not kidding..Big Joe Biden

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            • Steve Spear Steve Spear says:

              Hey Papa!

              I am off also to watch the big stick!

              Oh yea!

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          • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

            Hey Tim.... maybe you did not read my comment.... I am For Measure U.

            I believe that measure U is good for My Community as it increases the likelihood of more business coming to our business districts. We need every advantage to get folks to travel here. You increasing your Tax by an additional 1% per dollar is the same as cutting the profit margin of many small businesses by 1/5th. That is the reality of the tax.

            I am promoting that Yucca Valley raise the tax, Tim. Your tax increase is good for 29 Palms Business.

            In the long run I am putting my commercial property on the line. I'll take an advantage like you are about to give the rest of the Basin and run with it.

            One more time... Let's hear it for Measure U.

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          • Tim, there is 30 years of pork in Measure U, it's bad politics. IF you wan a sewer, focus on sewer projects. If you want roads, parks and unspecified projects, don't merge it with sewer projects.

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  2. Don Frohriep Don Frohriep says:

    What do you call a fair vote? What is seen is 64 billion people homeless around the world,which would be about 30 to 40% of the people out of 100%, that could vote. Homeless people have no right to vote because they have no address. So that 30 to 40% have no right to vote or have any say so that would help them. So what you call a fair vote becomes "money talks" There is not anything out there about the over run homeless population, and how we can make a positive difference for those in need. The people and or organizations, that are trying to make a difference for the homeless or low income people. Our town seems to do everything in their power to put up road blocks to stop us from trying to help make a difference.

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      64 Billion? Really 64 Billion Homeless People? Is that interstellar? I mean more than one planet?

      As of today, it is estimated Only 7.045 billion people populate the entire Earth as estimated by the United States Census Bureau.

      64 Million on the other hand out of 7.045 Billion is 0.0060% of the population... But hey its your story, I'll try to keep up with your logic. Continue.....

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    • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

      Don Frohriep said: "Homeless people have no right to vote because they have no address."

      Quit wasting our time with your fallacies about the homeless being denied the right to vote

      Here are some facts, not hot air.
      With respect to state elections, courts that have addressed the issue have held that states may not refuse to allow a homeless person to register to vote on the ground that they do not have a traditional residential address. As far as federal elections are concerned, the uniform "national mail voter registration form," which the NVRA requires states to accept as a means of registration, allows the applicant to draw a map to indicate where he or she lives "if the applicant lives in a rural district or has a non-traditional address." This means that homeless people who can identify a street corner, park bench, etc. as their home base by drawing a map should not be prevented from registering to vote for failing to provide a traditional residential address.

      So stop making up false narratives.

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  3. Richard Deaver Richard Deaver says:

    As a non-resident-but-consumer of Yucca Valley businesses, should measure U pass I will look to make all future purchases outside of the TAX ZONE. It will create a minor incovience . I found it telling that proponents of the tax waited until this weekend to post signs(Imus’ signs were vandalized around the same time?) telling some of the truth about where the money will actually go, that is, NOT entirely to the sewage system as previously alleged. I am not at all surprised that the YVRWF had previously endorsed a TAX on the citizens of Yucca Valley though, many of their endorsements recently have been dubious, to say the least. It would be refreshing to see a true distinction between our two major parties once again, being a life long conservative, both economically and socially I am finding little distinction, as of late between the Democrats and Republicans, especially in our local representatives

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  4. Don Frohriep Don Frohriep says:

    By Mary Milligan. Measure "U" who benefits the most from it? From what I have read so far, in this blog. It is my understanding the higher income people have they will have to pay little or no money in extra taxes if measure "U" passes. where as seniors and low income people would have to pay the extra tax, and it would be a struggle to their fiances. My question is will these seniors and low income people end up losing their homes in the end. If that happens what then, they become homeless and add to the already too great a number of homeless people, who can't vote because they have no address in the town they live in. Please help me understand how this can be fair for both income brackets.

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  5. mary milligan says:

    By Yvonne DeShazo. How measure "U" would effect me and my family? If measure "U" is passed it will effect mine and my family already tight budget. My solution to this would be to take my business of buying or purchasing things to other surrounding areas. The problem with that though would be in high increase in gas prices recently. What I'm also thinking about is the impact on other low income families and or homeless people. I believe more of them have no transportation than those who do. So in turn they would be unable to travel, and be able to shop else where if they choose to. This is just one more problem Measure "U" if passed will negatively effect low income people.

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  6. Larry Briggs Larry Briggs says:

    Steve, When Walgreens canceled construction of the building they also cancelled another 60+/- other new one's nationwide. Most of the "select few" were upset because the new building was scratched. It was always the intent of the mural program to support new businesses coming into town even if that meant an existing mural was destroyed in the process. Sadly, we lost the 1st of our murals and new construction.

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    • Steve Spear Steve Spear says:

      Thanks Larry,

      I was trying to provide some emphasis for Dan so that his brain cells could be shocked back into remembering that we as a city almost had a Walgreens and we as a city took down our first mural to assist in getting Walgreens here and we as a city did nothing at all to prevent them from building here.

      In fact we bent over backwards to assist them in locating to 29 Palms.

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      Some one... pass the Kleenex....

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  7. Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

    Steve Spear wrote:
    Dan this is easy. You know that plot of land that once had a furniture store on it with a mural? Well that building is not there anymore and that mural is gone. That mural removal caused a select few in the community to get upset when Walgreens pulled out of building on that lot. Remember now?

    And why did the pull out of the building project happen?

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    • Steve Spear Steve Spear says:

      Hmm....

      Read Larry's post above - they pulled out of 60 +/- new builds across the country at that time.

      If you want to talk the why's and wherefores of that I am not biting. I here to talk local issues.

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  8. Larry Briggs Larry Briggs says:

    Because the market had tanked and they wouldn't get the return on investment that they projected. I'm told they sold the property for less than they paid plus the cost of demolishing the buildings and houses. It's a footnote on their annual report to shareholders.

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  9. Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

    Unable to reply on certain posts on this tread whats up Dan?

    Steve you make a good point about corporate evaluations, yes they look to blocks of eighty thousand customers in the southwest for a footing. This gives even more reason to be accommodating to the local tax paying property owners when they are willing to invest seven figures of their hard earned wealth. We see how it is working out hiring consultants and waiting for target, not to good, but it not being good should be good for the small ambushes business man or woman. The small guy can bring big names with franchising given the chance. Sad the city picks and chooses to the determent of all the citizens who what where when and how the winners are, it is un American bordering on criminality.

    The city bending over backwards for big corporate business while at the same time having the non-connected locals jump through insurmountable hoops (foolishly past codes) is hardly a city to be proud of.

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    • Steve Spear Steve Spear says:

      I noticed that also Mark about not being able to reply. I think that happens as the reply area gets smaller and smaller Dan should be able to fix it - I think.

      You bring up valid points about the codes and local small business. Again, I have to mention that the city has a chance to rectify this but it appears it is going down an even more restrictive road.

      As you are aware the General Plan re-write also included a Development Code re-write. That process is ongoing but based upon reports of that update we are not seeing what Steve Whitten refers to as the "KISS" rule - Keep It Simple Stupid. Instead we are seeing even more onerous restrictions and the use of the word "shall" which leaves out all variances whatsoever.

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      • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

        The General Plan re-write also included a Development Code re-write started at the beginning of your second Term Steve.... 6 Years ago. This supposed change to KISS has become an excruciatingly slow process that has not only slowed growth it has allowed things to get worse. What was before in some cases optional has now become mandatory.

        What should have been a simple example of bipartisanship has turn out to be a huge impediment to opportunity.

        Notice I said opportunity. We as a community have failed to take advantage of our geography. We continue to use Lear Rd as main road to the base, making 62 to Adobe a backwater secondary artery. We either give up the present downtown and zone Lear and Indian Trail roads as the "New Downtown" or take a D9 Cat with ripper blades to lear and start at the two mile and rip the asphalt up all the way to Indian Trail.

        We have to position 29 as on the road to MCAGCC not the town at the back gate.

        But I'll tell you 6 years of doing nothing but talking about it is getting old, really old. 6 years of special interests dominating the conversation and another 2-6 years before hammering out a plan to no avail is absolute example of political bankruptcy.

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      • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

        Steve do you think part of the rewrite problem may stem from overpaid consultants that were recommended by the staff? Could not having put a time limit or max funding amount on their contract create an unending profit motive? Could the lack of business wisdom on the council contributed to entering a boondoggle contract like that? One thing about it the voters get the governance they deserve. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate the fact we live in a main gate town and as a result we are going to have a council with little business experience, susceptible to the old public employee mantra spend it or lose it. Most of the same people that complain about the lack of business are the ones that would vote for those without business experience.
        We are stuck this cycle with no choice but public employees, so what to do , The way I see it, two has had a chance to improve 29 and I don’t see anything but debt, so I am going with change Cora. Klink and Cole are both good men with the best of intensions; they just haven’t represented all, they seem to focus city government to serve the connected vocal few leaving so many and so much opportunity untapped.
        Does anyone even know what the base payroll is?
        I have 25 acres pretty close to the main gate, I would like to develop it.
        Bet the city would bend over for big business saying "in the long run it will pay to give them variances and sales tax passes", but screw the small guy that has paid his local taxes for fifty years.

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      • Carey Alderson Carey Alderson says:

        Since it has already been pointed out that the Development Code is in the middle of a re-write I don't need to comment too heavily on that.

        What I will say is that we are working to reduce the large amount of discretionary review requirements by the Planning Commission. The changing to the word "shall" was mainly for consistency. (.ie required, must be, will,...) The Commission is working to streamline the CUP process, make code that makes sense, reduce redundancies, and make things equal.

        The current Development Code was written years ago when Jay Corbin was the Community Development Director. We now see that things that were approved by the City Council then needs to be updated and some errors corrected. There are many hurdles for commercial and residential development that have already been removed.

        I encourage everyone to come and speak at the meetings. We have had a very disappointing turn out when it comes to this discussion. Some meeting have only had the 1 or 2 people, most have had NONE.

        And before anyone says that it doesn't matter if they attend or not. Remember that those that keep harping on the fact that things need to be changed and kept simple, need to voice their opinion in front of the members that are trying get their opinions.

        Posting on the web, or other outlets, that there are problems with the code are not saying anything new or informative.

        Like I used to tell my Marines, "if you come to me with a problem, you better come to me with a solution."

        This is your opportunity to make possible changes to the code. If you are not exercising your right to provide input, then it would seem that you have not earned the right to complain.

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  10. Larry Briggs Larry Briggs says:

    Dan, this is one of your pet peeves and you are wrong. The Marines and their families know where Adobe is. They go to the drive-in on Adobe. The military families know where Luckie Park is off Adobe. The Young Marines know where the tattoo and massage parlors are along Adobe. The lines at McDonalds show that the Marines know where Adobe and the Hwy are. Marines know where Denny's and the Bistro are. Marines even know where the motel 6 is on weekends. Marines know where to shop at Stater Brothers on the highway. And there is a new tattoo parlor in with Stater brothers. The Indian Trail/Lear route was established so the tank haulers are not tearing up the downtown area. What you should do is get rid of the mobile weenie wagon and open up a brick and mortor hot dog building. That way the Marines would know where you are 24/7. Bet it would increase your business. As for shopping, don't forget you can order on line and get it in a day or two. You don't have to drive to Yucca or down below to shop. Yhey'll send it to you by truck in a day or two. Quit blaming the city for changes in the market place.

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    • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

      what about the parking codes? and what if he wanted to paint his business mustard yellow? what if he wanted to etablish his wennies on sulavan on his lot to harness all that theater 29 trafic? Larry only the select few get parking and other code waivers from the Nazi PC, not all of us can leach a taxpayer provided parking lot.

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      • Carey Alderson Carey Alderson says:

        First off loud mouth, the planning commission does NOT grant any waivers! We follow the code as it is written. The only person or persons that can grant waivers is the City Manager and/or the City Council.

        Second, keep calling me a nazi and you will find out how pissed one person can get.

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        • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

          Cary you my friend are a member of a public entity a governing official, I your friend have a right to speak out against any governing body, and instead of winning you should remember your sworn duty to up hold the Constitution. The first amendment gives not only me but all citizens the very cherished right to speak out against what they believe is government tyranny. How does the saying go if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. Your statements like “Second, keep calling me a Nazi and you will find out how pissed one person can get” reaffirms my belief about the PC being Nazi”. I am sorry but you on the street I would never call a Nazi but when you but on your PC hat I will exercise my rights. You want to be careful your statement is a border line terrorist treat, don’t get yourself in trouble by not following the law, I know you would warn me if I was not obeying a code.

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          • Carey Alderson Carey Alderson says:

            First off friend, learn to read and lean to spell my name.

            Secondly, you do have the right to speak out. But that right does not include insulting me. Ever heard of defamation, slander or libel? If you have read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

            And if memory serves me correctly, after the last time you and I spoke about this repeated calling the Planning Commissioners nazis, you stated that you would not do that again. Since you said that you realized how inflammatory that is.

            Now, as for my "border line terrorist threat"... oh bother you have no idea how wrong you are for even calling someone whose family fought against the nazis and that way of thinking so people like you have the rights you have today.

            For the last time I will ask you. Quit with the nazi name calling.

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            • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

              help

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            • Carey Alderson Carey Alderson says:

              What do you need help for??

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            • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

              there have been many heroes’ 16 million in WW2 not including all the Roses the riveter, the farmers feeding the needy, Most Americans have good in their heart, even I may have a smitten.
              Sometimes they let their guard down (I will not) and follow just as they did in Germany in the thirties, yes there were basically a good people that turned and followed their government, not many were questioning the path, and dissention was forbidden. Hitler had brought them from the grasp of depression with grand projects, new roads all kinds of pretty stuff.
              I think what we currently need is our great troops to return home and protect the people from the government.
              I will try to refrain from calling the PC Nazis, but there are times that I think about the Authoritarianism attitude of the PC and will most likely say something you or Authoritarianism establishment does not like. I would suggest not reading my post if you are a sensitive person.

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            • Carey Alderson Carey Alderson says:

              You know Mark, if you were using the really big words correctly and if you know anything about history, this conversation could go on forever.

              Think what you will the Planning Commission has the Development Code that is HAS to follow. I freely admit that there are issues and subjects within the code that need to be addressed.

              OH WAIT!! We are going thru a re-write of the code. How about that? Maybe if we had more input from people in the community then we would see and know if there are other problems we are missing.

              So Mark, let me break this down to you Barney style. I can only follow the rules set down before me. I can't help if you do not like the decisions that we make. I must follow the code.

              As far as I am concerned I can't make things anymore clearer and I am done point out how wrong you are on so many subjects.

              Have a happy day in your world.

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            • Hi Carey,

              What is the status on PC's discussion of a ban on rooftop evaporation coolers and air conditioners?

              I've watch the City's online videos meeting (not all of them) and haven't seen anymore on the discussion concerning a ban on rooftop apparatuses, including WiFi receivers, satellite dishes, TV antennas.

              I guess the thinking they are not very attractive to out of town visitors. Please update me on this. Thanks a bunch.

              [For those whom don't know, Carey is a 29 Planning Commissioner.]

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            • Carey Alderson Carey Alderson says:

              The issue of Rooftops was not about a ban. The current code says that “heating and air conditioning and other equipment shall be placed behind residential buildings and not on rooftops.”

              Now the hard part is interpretation. On the one hand it could be 3 items or 2 items.

              3 items would/could be a furnace, a cooling unit, and last, other equipment. No one no where I know would put a furnace on the roof. A cooling unit yes, I see them everywhere and they have been installed since the current code was approved by the City Council. Other equipment….hmmm, well that is really the hard one. What is other equipment?

              Now if you look at the code as 2 items, a centralized heating and cool unit and other equipment then there at becomes a little easier, but not much. Most places do put centralized units behind or even beside homes. Then you have other equipment again. What is other equipment?

              From the research I have done I found centralized units are placed on the ground in residential and on the roof for commercial.

              With that being said, my current view on the subject (bar any information that changes my mind) is swap coolers stay available to be placed on the roof. Centralized units go to the ground in residential.

              I am in favor of striking other equipment unless we start defining what other is.

              The one important issue that needs to be understood is that this would apply ONLY to NEW structures. Those existing prior to the adoption date of the new development code are good-to-go.

              I hope this answers your question. If not let me know.

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            • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

              Carey, am I missing something. When did Mark call you a Nazi? And why does your tone seem like Mark is to be subservient to you? From what I can understand about Mark, he's willing to take quite a few punches before he would make a declaration of that nature about you. I should know. i've been very harsh in jest with Mark and he never crossed any line with me. Regular readers of CT know that I can be quite caustic so if Mark did retaliate it would be something that I would expect, but to the contrary he doesn't simply because thats not his style.

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            • Carey Alderson Carey Alderson says:

              Try reading the messages. I think I've explained my feelings. It has nothing to do with anyone be a sub to anyone.

              As for now I think mark and I have said enough. Time to move on.

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      Seriously Larry you think that insulting my little business will win the argument? Is this your Joe Biden imitation? Sounds like you could give a rats ass about commercial property. You got yours... Screw the next generation right Larry? I mean hell order the shit on line Larry... I wonder why not real estate brokers on line, we just do it on-line and cut the local putz wad out of the pie?

      The single dumbest move in the history of 29 was the diversion of base traffic to lear Road. It killed the Downtown.... All the Major businesses died on the vine.... it took a few years but the steady decline killed a once vibrant and busy downtown. All because some Alpha Hotel was worried about "tearing up the streets with convoys" ..... but I guess the asphalt is much better or thicker on Lear... who knows.

      What a bunch of well intentioned goobers did, was kill down town. Ancient old farts who wanted to make the downtown a quiet little artsy farts retreat... They killed the golden goose...

      And now you want me to rent some shit hole building for top dollar in a diminished antiquated former commercial district, that does not meet code and would take 10s of thousands of dollars to get to code to sell a few bucks worth of hot dogs a day to a ghost town of a down town?? Who are you kidding?

      Hell if you want me to do that I'm Moving to a place that has traffic... I'd be better off moving to Ridgecrest.

      Like I said before either divert the traffic back to downtown or let downtown meet its demise and move the commercial center of town to Lear Rd and Indian Trail. I don't know why that sounds so impossible.... It makes 100% perfect sense... New Commercial districts are developed all the time, and old commercial districts pass on to history. I don't want to mention any areas in particular... if you know what I mean.

      Take a drive, Set for an hour at 62 and Lear watch the traffic from the west turning left and the north traffic on Lear turning right. the Majority of the traffic is diverted to the by-pass route never reaching downtown 29. That is an indisputable fact.

      If I was going to set up shop in this town, it would have to be on the Lear Indian Trail By-Pass Route. That is where the traffic is. It sure as hell would not be in the Adobe 62 corridor. I'm not sure adobe could support another food vendor.

      Until you can get the traffic that is diverted back to go through the downtown, nothing will change for the better. You have killed the highway shopper. All we get is the minor traffic that travels on to Amboy and Parker and the guy who misses the Indian Trail turn for home.... We need the base employees traveling through town seeing storefronts. That is not happening now. It has not been happening since the Lear bypass was made.

      What I find humorous, is this big Parking issue.... WHAT PARKING ISSUE???? Nobody ever shops in the downtown.... Eat yes.... shop no... Grocery Shop yes, shop for candles and potpourri? No.. With traffic you get diversity.

      Larry business needs traffic... Maybe not your business, but you are not really in the retail business. But real storefront businesses need traffic, You have diverted the Traffic.... Send it back to its historic patterns or make lear Main Street. Questions?

      I've been preaching this stuff for 15 years. One of these days one of you guys will open your eyes and see what I am talking about.

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      • Larry Briggs Larry Briggs says:

        You have been preaching this for 15 years. It must mean that a lot of people don't agree with you.

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        • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

          Rim shot Larry.... No I just never have been able to get past the local brown nosers to get to the proverbial trough...

          I would imagine if the creme de la creme had property out on Lear things would happen... or if not they would howl for zone changes.... remember wasn't it Section 19 and the extension of Amboy Rd? You know that by pass to make all those land locked pieces of useless property valuable commercial real estate... Oh I know you remember that.

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    • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

      Larry said that if Dan set up a brick and mortar hot dog building that he would "bet" it would increase his business.
      Ok, Larry make sure that while you read this your thinking of Joe Bidens dentures and that I'm interrupting you once every minute or so.
      Larry, that's a great idea but here's the caveat. Instead of betting just plunk down enough cash for a 6 month lease for the brick and mortar location. I'm sure you could use your CSRL to find a proper location at a bargain price. Now, go get all of the proper health code, business license, permits, food, equipment and advertising budget squared away. Spend a little time developing your clientele base, hire some high school kids who have "connections" and open it up on your own. Lets see how hope and change works for you as Mustards Last Stand does circles around your brick and mortar solution. And here's a novel idea. How about getting out from behind your computer at your brick and mortar location on the corner and get proactive at showing your clients homes instead of playing solitaire?

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      • Larry Briggs Larry Briggs says:

        Papa, Have you ever eaten at the Bistro? or at the Red Lotus? or at Las Palmas? or at the Toky Grill when it was open? All brick and mortar and all with permits.

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        • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

          Apples and Caviar.... I know people like my hot dogs but come on... Street food is not the same as restaurant faire. I mean I'd like to think so but really.... lol.

          The Bistro spent 10s of thousands of dollars to build a magnificent high class cafe... It sure as hell is not a Hot Dog Stand.

          They have a nut to crack that exceeds my total expected gross receipts.

          Sit down restaurants are completely different business models from a mobile street food vendor... The poor bastards work 80-100 hours a week We are happy with 20-30. While we both have to answer to the same health department and other government agencies, They have a huge overhead, personnel issues, and other expenses that go way beyond anything I want to put up with at this stage of my life.

          But listen friend do not confuse my little mobile event trailers as any less the State, County or City approved kitchen facility as any kitchen behind the dining room of even the best restaurant in the area. We have to pass the same high standards as does every restaurant in the County.. And Besides we have passed inspection in both San Bernardino and Riverside.

          Our local Inspector is no push over... she is fair but she is tough.

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        • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

          Those are much more intensive menu's and no I have never had Chinese prepared on a hotdog stand.
          I still love ya though. Your a great example of kindness with exception of the cheap shot at Dans biz.

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