Thirty One Million Dollars in debt. A city Divided. Incumbents looking at the possibility of a humiliating defeat at the polls. Yet the Twentynine Palms City Council gives Richard Warne, the much maligned City Manager, a pay raise.
While the rest of the city is well below the medium income of $34,000 a year, Warne is now approaching $200,000 a year. It ought to be interesting at the forums to see how the Incumbents are going to morally justify not only giving Warne a raise but not cutting his pay.
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City Manager Richard Warne wants us to “Eat Cake”
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Citizen: Its time to stand up and be counted
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• If we fired the city would we have less park and rec? For the answer compare what 29 had before city hood.
• Would we have less fire protection? Nope our city does not do fire protection.
• Without the city who would maintain our roads? The county does a mighty fine job and as a bonus they are less likely to pick and choose based on the buddy system
• Who would provide water? The city has never been able to provide that essential service.
• Well without the city who would provide us with police protection? The city has never and is forbidden by state code from performing police protection.
• But what about the axis of evil known as the planning commission/department? Seems those areas that are administered by county such as JT are much more permissive than 29, business is booming.
• Got to ask what do we get for the enormous overhead and debt leveled on the taxpayers by the five bozos on the council?
Not much when you think about it….
So let me see if I get this correct Mark. You truly believe that under county codes we would be better off??
I respectfully ask that you put down the crack pipe, pull your head out of your ass, and do some research before you open your ignorant mouth.
There is NOTHING that prevents the city from having its own Police, Fire, Water or Sewer if the city wants it.
You and the rest that are wanting “free enterprise” are seriously naive. You are basically advocating anarchy. No rules, no restrictions, no nothing….idiots.
Think before you speak, you are making yourself look worse than imbecilic.
Don’t be afraid of your views, be proud enough to at least but your name to your post, do you have young ones what kind of example are you setting, If you have any do you think they would see a man or a coward in you? What would your pastor, your mom or grandmother think of your spineless practice?
The county codes are a little less restrictive than that of the city, therefore I prefer the county just as many that seek to build in the county over city. Seem we have an inverted arrangement here. Most areas the affluent would seek the city but here they seem to prefer to be outside of city limits. I know there are those affuent ones that like the city but they are mostly sucking the tax tit.
Currently there may be nothing the city can’t overcome to providing police fire water or sewer, but believe me they have some major state oversight issues to overcome before any services can be provided by this waste of funds we call a city. The city is at this time is illegal if it was to provide any of the mentioned services. The city is nothing but a waste. There were times that the RDAs provided a means of selective enrichment but thanks to Gov Brown that has ended. I am thinking those that enriched themselves by way of the minions on the current and past councils will soon tire of the waste if none is going their way. It will be interesting to watch the party is over.
First off my name is Frank, and Mark, you and I know each other. So take your bullshit some where else.
Second, county codes less restrictive my ass. What county codes are, are a joke. They allow for complete craziness to ensue. Also they haven’t been updated in forever.
Third, since you don’t like it in the city limits, pack your crap and move. Ever wonder why the people have elected you nut job? Your over the top rhetoric drives everyone away from you. Calling everyone that doesn’t agree with you a Nazi, or Axis of evil. Get real, get a life.
Fourth, please explain why the city would be “illegal” to provide services? Back your doldrums of non-sense with FACTS, FACTS, and more FACTS!!
1. Well howdy frank I thought you moved to Tucson, never
knew you to cower behind a handle
2. First one that comes to mind is parking codes
3. I think I will stay and promote a change for the
better, Fire the axis of evil return to county
4. Do you think the state regulates city services, you
think the city at this point has its tee’s crossed or
I’s doted, check out the state sight and go to ca.
29 codes you can find the state is very restrictive,
many many hoops
Since you can’t get to the facts I will.
Try reading the California Constitution Article 11 Local Government: Sec 9.
Then look at the Joint Exercise of Powers Act is the legal basis for extensive contracting at the option of any two or more governmental units. To share costs, avoid duplicate efforts, or secure better facilities, cities often cooperate with other cities under this act, and frequently contract with special districts or counties for the purchase of services. Such city-county contracts cover fire protection, law enforcement, jails, building inspection, personnel services, street sweeping, lighting, libraries, hospitals, animal control, and weed abatement. Selective contracting out is now widespread, especially since Proposition 13 in 1978. Cities contracting with their counties for most of their municipal services are said to operate under the Lakewood Plan.
If you look at Proposition 13 it provided less funding for local public services such as police, fire, and schools.
Question for you. Are you against the voters? Reason I ask is in 1987 registered voters, through citizens group advocating incorporation, gathered adequate signatures and submitted a reorganization application to incorporate the City of Twentynine Palms, dissolve County Service Area 8, and detach from County Service Area 70 (LAFCO 2427). LAFCO held a
community workshop on the incorporation which was attended by numerous residents. The Commission approved the proposal on the basis that: 1) the area is a recognizable community; 2) the area is so far away from the seat of county government, that self-governance is warranted; 3) the boundaries adequately reflect the community; and 4) the area has a demonstrated ability to provide service at a lower cost than other urban areas. Following Commission approval, the County Board of Supervisors ordered that the question for the reorganization be placed on the November election. The measure passed with 52% of the vote. Effective November 23, 1987, Twentynine Palms became a city.
Do you believe you could get enough voters to go back? Doubtful!
what was the vote tally….. was it not a bit over 318 vote difference and wasn’t the voter turn out dismal at best?…. I was there…. it was not a stunning mandate like you said.
While I do agree it would be hard to reverse and un-incorporate it is not for the fact it would not be for the lack of it being a popular idea. The problem is getting it on the ballot. I believe there is more than enough votes to close down city hall.
One more thing. The question of disincorporation must be considered by the city council if petitioned by 20 percent of the city’s voters. A majority of those voting in a special election determines the outcome.
No city has disincorporated since 1972.
interesting read:
The combination of ever-increasing costs and the weakness of the housing market and the general economy has challenged the financial health of many California cities. At least one has already sought bankruptcy protection, and others may follow or are seriously considering the option.
The severity of the current economic downturn also has raised the question of whether municipal disincorporation can provide additional or alternative relief to distressed cities. However, the process has rarely been used, and its legal effect is not well understood.
Following a discussion of the background and legal effect of disincorporation in California, this article examines each stage of the disincorporation process, paying attention to timetables, potential hurdles, and other areas of concern for a city or citizens’ group seeking to initiate such a proposal.
California law supplies a procedure for disincorporating a city, whether chartered or general law, involving four stages:
(1) Initiation of Proceedings,
(2) Consideration by the Local Agency Formation Commission (“LAFCO”),
(3) Election, and
(4) Completion of Proceedings.
The process includes several avenues for public participation, whether through voting or public hearings before the LAFCO. Further, the LAFCO has significant authority and discretion over both the process and the substance of the proposal, with power to condition its approval on a “virtually limitless array of factors.”
Continue……
Like I said a lot of tees to cross and I,s to dot be for the city can provide the mentioned services, wy waste the time and money with the bloated city trying to get up to speed. All this time they were pading pockets with the people’s rda funds they lost sight of what a local government responsibilities are at a huge cost to the non connected taxpayer. At this point The city is sliding towards a approval similar to that of congress .
Prop 13 did not take funds from local government, prop 13 restricted local governments from taxing the old and poor off their property. Many were being tax to the point they could no longer stay in their home,
The taxpayers had better start paying attention to government spending, having an extra layer of bureaucrats with their desire to manipulate wealth by codes just don,t make sense. The city is not needed and nothing but a waste of limited resources.
Facts Mark facts!!!
All we are seeing from you is blah, blah, blah.
That’s funny trying to justify one absurdity with another absurdity; man California’s little governments pay has tried to outpace the ridicules state levels to the determent of the private sector. You know the private ones who pay the government workers. There is no justification for their looting by stating they pay taxes too. What is lost is the health and wellbeing of the government sector is dependent on the success and advancement of the private sector. We have seen the government sector loot though high pay, cushy appointments and what should be considered criminal pensions to the point we are now in, unable to pay our bills without some major cuts. That gets me back to what do we the private sector get for our tax investment, we need to see some value not road blocks and draconian codes perpetrated by an unelected bunch of control freaks on the PC.. The best solution is for the people to fire a city that serves no useful purpose but to enrich the selected connected few. They are shooting themselves in the foot by denying additional commerce that is needed for their own survival. They are not very smart. Stop the waste fire the city.
you think the votores of 29 arn’t going to wise up our city manager makes more than governors, and for what a 31 million dollar debt that will take generations to pay
http://www.therichest.org/nation/highest-paid-america-governors/
Facts Mark facts!!!
How much are we paying for our City Manager? $154,775 Annual Salary, $204,259 Total Wages Subject to Medicare
source: http://gcc.sco.ca.gov/Default.aspx
Fact: As far as the state is concerned the City of Twentynine Palms ranks 158th out of 250. And in the county ranks 15th out 24.
City Manager pay in LA County by population in comparison to Twentynine palms population of 25,377.
City of Duarte: $215,467, pop. 23,124
City of Agoura Hills: $195,141 pop. 23,387
City of Calabasas: $216,696 pop. 23,788
City of San Fernando: $243,000 pop. 25,366
City of South Pasadena: $149,784 pop. 25,881
City of Cudahy: $217,381 pop. 26,029
So, how far from normal are we?
And by his poor performance he should be 251 out of 250 City Managers….. Seriously you give a list of 6 towns 4 of which are upper crust and try to equate salaries? Just because they are a bunch of dumb sons of bitches does that mean we have to be??? Seriously?
He does not deserve anymore than $1.00 above the medium income of this city. He has been a fiscal nightmare for this city. Of the five city managers in our history He and he alone has put us in to debt. He has made some of the dumbest management decisions anyone I know in local government has ever heard of. He deserves termination not a discussion on how he is underpaid….
Don’t get me started…….
What part of BY POPULATION did you not understand?
I was merely show that by our current population it does not fall to far from reason as to the amount of pay. I did not even go into the years of service or education. All which play heavily on what a prospective employee can ask to be paid.
I am not defending or attacking the City Manager. His rights and wrongs are for another day. I need to do my research and finds facts (Mark are you listening?) before I condemn or condone.
If the City Council decided that was the pay then they are the ones that need to be talked about.
Oh, that’s right, they did.
I bet those cities you refer to are as bad a fiscal shape as 29.
Back to basics the post master generals pay is 276 grand, over 700,000 employees under his control
Joint chief of staff 176 grand salary, are you really going to keep trying to justify the ungodly pay of a little city manager with a couple of dozen employees being on par with the joint chiefs of staff or the post master general, or the govenors of these fifty states, are you out of your mind?
Dan, What was the total vote on cityhood?
The measure passed with 52% of the vote (980 for, 894 against).
86 votes decided the issue of incorporation….. not much of a mandate Frank
Who said anything about a mandate?
Duh
Thanks Frank.
Dan, 52% voted for incorporation. By what percentage did President Obama win the election in 2008?
Since we elect our president by electorial college, Obama received 365 electoral votes, and McCain 173 out of a total of 538.. I hate to break it to you but it is by how many and how big the state not the popular vote…. ask Nixon, Gore and others…..
60-40 of the electorial vote I’d say…
Apple and oranges Larry…. Apples and Oranges.
I realize the election is a result of the electoral college (where the elecors can change change their vote if they wish). My question was how many votes did Obama get and how may did McCain get.
look Larry what does this How many votes did Obama get have a flipping thing to do with either the City Manager getting a raise or is there a procedure to dis-incorporate the city? None….. a strawman argument that has NOTHING to do with the subject story…. Get back on some relevant point, please.
Frank, it’s obvious Dan’s search engine can’t provide the answer. Can you help? Thanks, Larry
Found it Frank. Obama got 52.9% in ’08; Bush got 50.7% in ’04; Bush got 47.9 in 2000; Clinton got 49.2% in ’96, Clinton got 43.0 in ’92. So 52% for incorporation is pretty good and not Dan’s “not much of a mandate”.
Larry specious argument….. WE DO NOT ELECT OUR PRESIDENT ON POPULAR VOTE….. your example is absolutely meaningless….
Obama’s 52% was a 10 million Vote spread….. Incorporation was a 86 vote spread…. Meaningless comparison in this case…. you insult the readers intelligence when you propose that it make incorporation not susceptible to a referendum vote.
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics” is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent’s point.
The term was popularized in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881): “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli’s works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death. Other coiners have therefore been proposed. since you are Twain’s contemporary I’m blaming you….
Dan, I’m sorry if I upset you. Only trying to point out that 52% is 52% regardless if the spread is 86, 316 or 10 million. The one thing you didn’t say was how much the raise was in dollars and cents.
hey Larry if I remember right the last campaign there was one candidate that thought 180 grand was out of line, wait just remebered you were one of the candidates that advocated for the 180 grand, my bad i was going to give you credit for being fiscal responsible.
Larry….. 52% of my 12 inches is 6.3 inches… a respectable size for a guy my age….. 52% of your 4 inches leaves 2.2 inches… short of anything that any reasonable man or woman would say was remotely equal….. Argument is ridiculous….
I know it ain’t fair… but sometimes percentages just don’t mean anything.
By the way folks I am talking about Liquorice sticks…. so get you mind out of the gutter….
Hi Larry,
Just in terms of salary it would be a raise of $1,547.75 or about $128.00 a month. As for the rank and file of the city employees that average about $35,000 a year as compared to his $154,775 their pay raise at his recommendation, which I will address in a moment is $350 a year of $29.16 a month.
So he gets a pay increase of 300 percent plus as compared to the rank and file with his 1 percent.
And that is the problem with percentages – they initially sound fair but they are not at all when it comes to salaries.
What is the bigger issue that few know about is that the council when they hired Warne allowed the contract to read that whatever raise the council allows for the employees they must allow for Warne.
That kind of management of our tax dollars is irresponsible at best. Warne is an at will employee and should not have his pay linked to the rank and file. Trust me it was not our council at the time that thought that wording up. It was Warne who insisted on that language being in his contract.
I have worked with two city managers and have personally known four to include interim city managers. None has ever been so reckless with the city reserves as this gentlemen is nor has any been as divisive as this one is when it comes to council cohesion.
For him to take a raise was disgraceful. We are now 31 million in debt and it will not get better because project Phoenix will never be built Larry. All he has done is provide bond proceeds into the pockets of investors without a single spade of earth being moved. The bond proceeds at least could have gone into our share of tax dollars to fund our schools and special districts but they will not for at least 10 years.
It is a pretty sad legacy that he brings to our once debt free city.
Steve, very informative thank you. It’s even more perplexing and sadder that the councilmen went for this raise. Just whom are they working for? It doesn’t appear to be the taxpayers and residents. Do you know how the vote went? Please don’t tell us it was 5-0 for the raise; it was also a vote to dishonor the covenant to not link his raises to employee contracts.
Hi Ben,
I really do not think they had a choice due to the contract. Now all five of them are responsible for that language in the contract. I am sure that a few of them now wish they had vetted Warne better than they did and I am just as sure that the language in the contract will be removed at the earliest opportunity at least for a few of the current council.
I have no idea as to how the vote went but it should be reported since it was an action item in a closed session that resulted in the expenditure of additional city tax dollars.
Again, it may very well have been a 5-0 vote due to the language and a individual council member may not have wanted to be on the record for not honoring an existing contract.
This type of activity at city hall is why John Cole must be replaced in November by Cora Heiser. She will tip the scales against Warne and we will not have to worry about foolish contracts being executed again.
Also Warne should be ashamed of himself for linking management pay to rank and file pay. What a disgraceful display of leadership.
Thanks Steve. It looks like the City Council was outsmarted by a sly old hungry fox.
are you saying it would break the managers contract for a duly elected representative of the citizens to vote no on a pay raise for a city manager that advocated burdening the citizens with a 31 million dollar debt? This is one more reason to fire the city. does this mean the manager can’t be fired?
I would figure that a vote might show some protest or disdain for him driving the Cities finances into a ditch. I would think if the council would have voted against his raise even if it was contractually unlikely to stop the raise, at least it would have put the A/H on notice.
November is right around the corner….
On page 30 of the city council report for Aug 14th.
Successor Agency rent and utilities 3,000 RPTTF / Admin
Successor Agency supplies 2,250 RPTTF / Admin
Successor Agency publications 3,000 RPTTF / Admin
Oversight Board room rental 3,000 RPTTF / Admin
Oversight Board Supplies 2,500 RPTTF / Admin
Oversight Board publications 4,000 RPTTF / Admin
Internet hosting / website maintenance 5,000 RPTTF / Admin
Risk management 8,000 RPTTF / Admin
Subtotal $ 30,750
I have a few questions about the numbers.
I would think that there is no contract with Marshall Networking and the Successor Agency or the Oversight Board for internet?!?
What Risk Management?
What rent and utilities, supplies, publications, room rental?
The meetings are at city hall using paper and ink already bought by the city. Internet, used by who, Staff? What publications have there sighed up for “RDA for Dummies”?
Just asking.
frank i think i am going to be writing your name in for city council, on target, nice post
Hi Newto 29,
What you have brought up is exactly why this thread was started. The budget items for the Successor Agency(SA) and the Oversight Board(OB) add up to exactly $250,000.00.
This just happens to be the exact amount allowed by the State for the “Administrative costs” of winding down the former RDA.
Our council did not come up with these numbers although they did approve them.
Again, it was the city manager, Warne, who came up this budget. It was Warne, who again, is taking our tax dollars and spending them on lunacy and a majority of our current council just agrees.
We have a two faceted problem with our city right now. We have a city manager who is a spendthrift and a majority of the council that are not fiscally conservative.
Two things must happen in November.
First, John Cole must be removed from office and replaced with Cora Heiser.
Second, Cora Heiser as her first business item must set a future agenda item under “Future Council Initiated Agenda Items” for the immediate placement of a closed session for evaluation of termination of the city manager.
If those two events occur we will be back on track to becoming a debt free city that provides for the welfare of the many as opposed to catering to special interest groups.
Not at all Mark. I think they should have voted “no” to the pay raise no matter the wording was in the contract.
What I am saying is that perhaps some council members did not want that label attached to them. I have no idea other than he got a pay raise and should not have.
The city manager can be fired when there are three council members that decide to do it. I think we are very close to that point and if in November Cora Heiser gets elected I am sure we will see how this council does stack up in regards to Warne’s termination regardless of the size of the severance package.
Steve, thanks for the info. Dan, you can stop looking for the answer.
I gave you the answer…. you were just too obstinate to accept it. But using another example showed you that percentages do not mean equality of outcome.