A quick read of today’s local radio print news indicates that the 29 Palms Planning Commission is putting in an exhusting amount of time attempting to revise and modernize the town’s Development Code.
Indeed, they have a huge job ahead of them and they ought to be commended for their efforts and dedication.
One item under discussed during the Planning Commission meeting last night that caught my eye is this:
Should the rooftop mounting of swamp coolers and air conditioners be prohibited?
If Twentynine Palms were were Beverly Hills or another super luxury real estate community I think most folks would see the purpose, usefulness, and relevancy of restricting evaporation coolers and air conditioners from being mounted on rooftops homes and businesses.
However, given the fact that we are 100 miles away from civilization to the east, and 60 miles to the west away from big real estates markets — it is no doubt a silly thing to discuss at planning commission meetings.
Commissioners, 29 Palms is a remote and isolated rural village. Continue with your *common sense* approach to planning and code modifications as you have been doing since being seated as commissioners.
It’s illogical and a fool’s errand to waste time discussion prohibiting coolers and conditioners mounted on rooftops. You folks are much too smart for this nonsense.
The most efficient cooler is a top-down mounted cooler. It’s not the City of Rancho Palos Verdes.
”It’s the desert.” – Lawrence of Arabia (1962)
According to the story filed by reporter Dan Stork, the consensus of the 29 Planning Commission “was to think about it some more.”
A ban on rooftop swamp coolers & air conditioners in 29 Palms?,
You might be interested
Y.V. Town Council final 460 disclosure statement 
29 City Council Meeting Canceled Again (& et cetera commentary)
29 Council to Meet again on Feb 9th
29 Palms Pioneer Actress Esther Williams Dies at 91
Walmart Secret Solicitor
Desert Heights: Breaking News – Fire Destroyed home, four dogs perish!
Vacation Home Rentals back on the Planning Commission Agenda
Incoming search terms:
- rooftop swamp coolers
- air conditioning rooftop swamp cooler
- air cooler vs air conditioner
- rooftop air conditioning screens palm springs
- rooftop swampcoolers
- swamp cooler service twentynine palms
- Swamp coolers 29 palms
More stenches from the PC Nazis, do these bozos really believe that the majority of citizens want them to have control where one puts ones cooler? How inept and absolutely bazaar for them to think controlling the minute things in life is serving the community. Yep America inverted, government controlling all and WE THE PEOPLE have to ask for permission for everything. It is time for WE THE PEOPLE to but a stop to cityhood.
“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them”.
thomas jefferson
I believe that my business ends at your property-line.
Let me clarify a few things from the “bozo PC Nazis” concerning heating and air conditioning, swamp coolers and other equipment being placed behind residential buildings and not on rooftops.
First, we were discussing RESIDENTIAL only.
Second, we were discussing RURAL RESIDENTIAL only.
Third, we were talking about any NEW construction.
Forth, NO decision was made.
There is already a commercial CODE REQUIREMENT that states “All mechanical equipment shall be screened from public rights-of-way and parking lots as an integral part of the building design through the use of parapets, screen walls, equipment wells, or similar design features, a minimum of six inches above the tallest piece of mechanical equipment.”
There are a number of cities, not just the “fancy” ones, that have adopted similar “no” rooftop equipment.
The real question is when is says “other equipment” does that include dish antennas and the like?
A proposal was made that it would be allow on rooftops so long as it was not visible from the front public right of way.
Again though NO decision was made.
Yeah like I said, Yep America inverted, government controlling all and WE THE PEOPLE have to ask for permission for everything. It is time for WE THE PEOPLE to but a stop to cityhood. It is as crazy as it gets to think the PC should have such draconian control, I forget what the definition of tyranny is.
Since the planning commission is discussing a ban on rooftop equipment? What’s next, a ban on rooftop solar panels, rooftop wifi hardward, satellite dishes, ham operator antennas? The discussion on a ban on top-down swamp coolers and air conditioners defies common sense. It is one of the dumbest things I have heard?
Hence why I said in one of the posts was “…other equipment”. Stay focused. There could be a discussion that goes to those very items you listed and more. It does require some degree of civility and logical thinking. I don’t believe that it is the thinking that would even consider some things that a already regulated.
Solar panels, for instance, falls under the fire code.
While solar panels fall under the fire code, Branson’s post falls under funny. Carey, drop everything. You are a unifier. Run for President. yep dem solar panels are likely to start some pretty big fires since day got sum little particles of the sun in em. Pretty spenensive 4 dee avrag felur. Muss a coss an arum and da leg to sen sum un up to da sun an quicklee dig em up, poot em in a cana uh chew an rush m back ta erth b4 day stard burnin a hoal in yaur roof.
Branson. You have given these lards more credit than they deserve. The two guys pictured are actually smart and just pretending to be dumb. I don’t think you can actually say that with a straight face about the Planning Commission.
Carey, thanks for the clarification. This is a fools errand Carey. Don’t the Commissioners have better things to do than try and hide residential coolers and conditioners from the public eye?
This is not something that was arbitrarily thought of. Property buyers do look at things like “esthetic value”. That was one issue, just one, that raised.
I have already heard things like visual amenity and character impacts as related to anything about rooftops.
Cary if someone wants to look to government to control every aspect of their environment let them move to where there is or create a HOA. Why in this little town of 29 do we need to be told what colors, what art, what fence or where our coolers should go. Is it the power that energizes the PC, it sure as hell not common sense. The PC is a waste, a fraud, and an abuse. It appeases a few cronies at the expense of the majority. Keep up with the insanity and see if it is fatal to cityhood. God I hope so, it would give the people their beloved 29 back. Please remember what the Nazis were doing as wrong as it was, it was sanctioned by their government.
Hi Carey,
I appreciate your position but this current set of discussions by the planning Commission about our future Development Code(s) are way, way, out of line and totally overboard in my estimation.
Devil Worshipers and chicken sacrifices, Roof mounted cooling equipment, certain height fences for certain types of lots. What is next rules requiring a certain color stucco and a knockdown pattern as opposed to a stipple pattern? Oh lets not leave out the “Pilaster” I bet 90 percent of the city population will need to look that one up – I did.
Minimum housing requirements – YIKES!
Local government has a purpose and it is not to make more and more rules. I think the people will turn real negative real fast should the Planning Commission continue down this road.
I have weigh in on this one
Geez, Commercial is one thing, but Residential? Ridiculous.
Common sense should prevail. The PC should be utilizing their time on bonafid issues and problems with the Development Code, not personal agendas.
The PC’s lack of confidence was displayed when they voted to send a Commissioner to the CC meeting to explain their decisions.
I am sure the CC would strike it down.
Let me say this right now. I don’t have a public opinion one way or the other at this point in time.
I was merely correcting and stating the issue at hand.
I knew the moment I wrote my first entry that this would open myself up for just the kind of debate that has ensued.
No one mentioned devil worship or government control. And if you want to try to call me a Nazi at least spell my name right, and then come say that to my face.
Now back to the issue at hand. Rooftop has been an issue in this city for many years but only as far as commercial was concerned. The idea that it should apply to residential has just now starting to surface. And until there is more of a public discussion there is NO decision.
Now I will address some of the other items mentioned in posts above. As far as “what colors, what art, what fence” some of those items have already been addressed and struck for the code.
It has been a tradition for Muslims after morning services on the first day of Eid al-Adha — the “festival of sacrifice” the patriarch of each family slits the throat of a lamb or a goat. This is an important ritual — a tribute to Allah and to the prophet Abraham, who in both the Koran and the Bible is said to have offered his son as a sacrifice to God.
I didn’t offer up anything that prohibited this activity nor do I believe that there is a problem in our city that requires action. It was simply a way to minimize that effects of those that may not understand someone else way of life.
Also noted during the study session was the the Commission DID wish to simplify the code. But simplify, doesn’t mean a free-for-all. What we will be looking for is easy to understand and follow what there MUST be in place to complete your application. If it is not listed then the applicant would bring it before the Commission for review.
It was minimum unit size in the Multifamily Residential Zones. Do you want some cheaply built micro apartments? Would a new minimum be 150 square feet plus kitchen, bathroom and closet – 220 square feet in total, about the size of a one-car garage be what you have in mind?
Posted was a question about our “lack of confidence”. No lack here, just wanting to ensure that there was NEVER, shall we say misunderstanding, on why the Commission voted the way we did. There have been times that I have been asked by Council members to give them background that might not have been clearly listed in the staff report. (Not offense to staff they do a great job)
It is a normal function for most municipalities to have a member of the various commission/committees at hearings. This was a City of Twentynine Palms Planning Commission Policy to have available at all City of Twentynine Palms City Council meetings a Commissioner available for questions.
With all that said, did I miss anything?
the Nazi PC reference is the subversion of liberty, meant to get a very important point across. Example you’re pointing out the need to control the size or quality of some apartments. Is this a job we want our government doing or should we let the market determine the feasibility. You might say do you want a land fill next to smith’s ranch, of course not but that would not happen if it was a private for profit land fill they would seek a location suitable ie affordable costumer friendly. Same with a retail box store they are not going to put it in a residential area, they are going to put it in the most accessible spot that is good for business, all this without the bureaucracy of a small corrupt little town where they manipulate zoning and wealth for their cronies. Zoning has been a failure and all those pretty codes well just look what they have done to this town. It is time to fire big all controlling brother.
I’ll have what ever Marks been drinkin……
I like it when you say Nazi. I know what you do, and don’t mean by it.
It is not governments job to decide winners or losers. With is not governments job to decide what is art and what is not. It is not governments job to tell the governed how they must live or where they must do it. It is not governments job to micromanage every aspect of our lives.
It is governments job to keep citizens safe, provide a infrastructure that promotes success for all of its citizens.
Most times…. and I mean most times it is better that government stand out of the way. It is not that they should do nothing… it is that they should do nothing to do further harm.
“Our predecessors understood that government could not, and should not, solve every problem. They understood that there are instances when the gains in security from government action are not worth the added constraints on our freedom. But they also understood that the danger of too much government is matched by the perils of too little; that without the leavening hand of wise policy, markets can crash, monopolies can stifle competition, the vulnerable can be exploited. And they knew that when any government measure, no matter how carefully crafted or beneficial, is subject to scorn.”
Now, guess who said that Dan.
Quoting Barack Obama’s speech to Congress of 9September2009. You left out the best part…
“When any efforts to help people in need are attacked as un~American; when facts and reason are thrown overboard and only timidity passes for wisdom, and we can no longer even engage in a civil conversation with each other over the things that truly matter ~~ that at that point we don’t merely lose our capacity to solve big challenges. We lose something essential about ourselves.”
Ps. Does anyone know if he used a teleprompter back then?
Don’t know if a teleprompter was use. Better question is who wrote it for him?
Who ever did wrote it very well. (even if it was obama)
What good fortune for governments that the people do not think.
Adolf Hitler
Carey, thank you so much for your input. Steve W, good to see your back. Your input is appreciated.
@ Planning Commissioners. I would like to view the video on this to absorb the discussions in total.
Steve S makes a valid point, it does seems overbroad. It would also selectively applied and discriminatory under color of law. That seems to me to be a constitutional issue violating the equal protection clause of the Constitution because it singles out homeowners. What is the thinking to single out one class of people?
Carey pointed out that “A proposal was made that it would be allow on rooftops so long as it was not visible from the front public right of way.” Would that include visibility from all avenues, streets, cul de sacs, roads or any vantage points. How about an advantage point half a mile away from a public right-of-way?
However written, it may also be unconstitutional vague.
Even if a “number of cities” have an codes like this one under discussion, that doesn’t make it right or constitutional.
I thought the planning commission was seeking to modernize the development code, not resculpt it, making it more complicate and reveiled.
The suggestion was made due to the fact that two other Commissioners were getting a little off track. Not all suggestions are intended to stand on there own. They invite discussion, change/modification, and in-favor for or against.
All municipalities look to what others have done under similar situations and what they did to resolve issues. That does not mean that they copy verbatim or even use what they have.
If it is found that certain elements “fit” then there is some plagiarism that happens. Our own City Council asked staff to look at the codes that were written in Yucca Valley.
“What we will be looking for is easy to understand and follow what there MUST be in place to complete your application. If it is not listed then the applicant would bring it before the Commission for review”
What in the hell kind of review are you talking about? Are you saying you want to continue having complete control?
Man I got to give it to you, you are not about to let people live, participate in commerce without an OK from big brother. Let me ask you, do you feel comfortable with your statement; it seems as if the PC wants control over unthought-of advancements, like hey man we didn’t have the foresight so we are going to put obstacles to progress. Nothing happens in this town without our approval no matter how much or how long, we have the power and it will be our decision whether you do business or hit the road to the next town. The PC has become the disease that stifles 29s growth
Let me try this one more time for the hard of hearing Mark.
If you have so much thought provoking ideas on how this and many other subjects should be done, show up at the Planning Commission and City Council meeting.
Open you mouth there instead of blasting every possible idea ever put forth on Cactus Thorns.
Suggestions and ideas should never be just summarily dismissed just because you don’t like them.
“Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government.” Thomas Jefferson. Thanks for the invitation to appear before you, but it is the people’s city, it is the people that I hope are paying attention as it is the people that need to reign in an out of control government.
Mr. Alderson has been nothing but honest, open, and patient with your dumb ass.
Give us all a break and shut the hell up!!
Ever wonder why the people don’t vote you ass into office??
Huh? Maybe they think your a crackpot!!
Upton,
Had good citizen Mark Clemons been elected to the city council– be sure the city WOULD NOT be in debt for an non-discharable bond debt of thirty-one million dollars (the vote was 3 for, 2 against).
Personally, I enjoy reading Mark C’s comments. Lighten up man. That was a cheap shot about the votes didn’t carry Mark into office.
I enjoy reading your posts, too, even though your animosity against Mark is apparent.
Have a good weekend.
Come on upton we all know carey ilke the rest on the PC has the best of intensions, and may I say he is an honorable man that can debate the issues and that I appreciate. If you think I am a little harsh to bad but it is my opinion that the citizens of Germany was not inherently bad they were just lead astray much as I see it happing here.
as far as the crackpot remark goes, I as carey have a pretty thick skin, re minds me of an old Indian story where a young brave ask the wise old chief if he sees the crazy buffalo running against the stampede at which the chief replies, “young brave he is the one that will survive and improve the rest of the heard” as they watch the majority go over the cliff.
Your turn
Yet Thomas Jefferson as part of the process was actively and directly involved, not willing to leave things up to the other guys who were supposedly informed.
If you have this much to say why have I not seen you at the Planning Commission meetings?
Carey, I tried to get in and they said I didn’t meet code. They won’t listen to me. I do like your profile picture and you have a very cool name.
Carey,
I wish you would stop marginalizing the opinions of people simply because they do not attend your Planning Commission meetings. Many residents do not have time to attend. Ask yourself how many public meeting there are each month. Should they all be attended without regard to other obligations? Why do the meetings have press coverage, minutes, internet streams, and televised cable coverage if the only thing that matters is the comments spoken at the actual PC meeting? I am not saying that you should take everything on this blog as gospel, but you should recognize it as part of the Twentynine Palms constituency voicing their beliefs and you not criticize them for their selected forum.
I don’t recall marginalizing any-ones opinion. My concern is that no one is hearing their opinion. That is why I am on here and why I respond to some of the entries placed on Cactus Thorns.
I do my best to ensure that I don’t opinion-ize the facts when I post. Mark has some interesting insights that would best be served voiced to those that make the decisions. I am merely trying to encourage him, and anyone, that if you have a voice and want it heard come and be heard.
I don’t know who from the city government reads the Cactus Thorns on a regular basis. I do know who is at the meetings and there are many that do are informed by the press coverage, minutes, internet streams, and televised cable coverage.
Posting quotes from (in)famous people, calling someone names is not conducive as an open dialog and exchange of ideas.
Telling people who post here that they should go to meetings if they have opinions sounds like marginalization to me. Perhaps I am being overly sensitive.
From my experience, commentary on this site has reached many of our local public officials and staff. They might disagree with the comments, but they do hear them.
I appreciate your effort to inform the public and we can both agree that name calling does nothing to advance a dialog.
I really like you guys.
Carey, your a brave man. You have politely posted here for all that google your name and will be seen posting along with me, the idiot of the month multi time recipient on CT. I enjoy seeing your avatar next to the butt sniffing dog. Your a good sport.
Unfortunately, the video of the July 17 planning commission is not up on the city’s homepage for viewing. It can’t be viewed on the local cable channel for those whom do not have cable. Hopefully, staff will very soon post the video.
That PC meeting needs to be looked at for more specific details and scrutinized.
Why? Because it seems the PC is *fickle minded* concerning a discussion on banning rooftop evaporation coolers and air conditioners from the public’s eye.
“It’s the desert.” — Lawrence of Arabia
I do believe that next to Project Phoenix this is one of the stupidist ideas I have ever heard. Seriously where else would you put the darn thing for optimum output if not on the roof. Where is the common sense?? LORD save us from this group.
This morning the video of the July 17 PC meeting is not yet up on the city’s video-page website. City staff said this morning it has been received. It’s 11:45; it’s still not posted.
“It’s the desert.” — Lawrence of Arabia