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Eagle Mountain Rears It’s Ugly Head

By   /   September 30, 2011  /   68 Comments

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Desert Star Weekley, By Dean Grey – September 29, 2011

Photo: Google Images: Outlined in red, the site of proposed garbage dump. Photo by Howard Gross/NPCA

Tricky things are happening at Kaiser’s abandoned mine at Eagle Mountain at the edge of the Joshua Tree National Monument.. The mining company is still hard at work after their initial plans to serve as a dumpsite for Los Angeles trash was shut down by the US Supreme Court. The trick is in the form of Senate Bill 108 which will keep the mine open and out of public hands.

“It looks like the mine is to be used for gravel, but we don’t really know what’s in those trucks,” said Donna Charpied, Executive Director of the Desert Protection Society.

“SB 108 is an end-run around the law,” Charpied said. “For the last 8 months we’ve been working to get the land back into the hands of the National Park, standing toe to toe with one of the largest corporations in America. Although there’s been sporadic mining up there for years, the actual mining permits were given-up by Kaiser in their plans to make the mine a dump. We need to help to win this one like we one the last one. Right is right.”

The mine has always been owned by Kaiser. A separate company, Mine Reclamation Corporation, was formed just to get the dump permit, according to Charpied. The city manager for Desert Hot Springs, Rick Daniels, was the President of MRC who came to the Coachella Valley along with the plan to haul LA trash by train to dump in the abandoned mine on land immediately adjacent to the national park.

“It’s always been Kaiser’s plan to make it a dump,” Charpied said, “That’s the only reason they got out of bankruptcy. They abandoned the mine and as per the agreement it should go back to the public.”

The1952 agreement that gave Kaiser the land for free was conditional that if Kaiser discontinued mining operations for seven years the land would revert back to public ownership. Although technically Kaiser hasn’t mined Eagle Mountain since 1983, at present, without mining permits, Kaiser is doing gravel mining in what appears to be a token measure to circumvent what is true and right.

“When Kaiser went bankrupt they said in pleadings to the court they would never mine again,” said Larry Charpied, “So we believe they have defrauded the bankruptcy court by stating they have never stopped mining. You can’t have it both ways.”

Full Story @ Desert Star Weekley

To contact the Governor and oppose Kaiser’s scheme: Scroll to bottom of Link

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About the author

Branson Hunter

Senior Corespondent At Large

"The ends do not justify the means." If you use illegal mean to accomplish a legal and even desirable result, the good result does not make the bad means you used justifiable.

68 Comments

  1. Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

    Can't think of a better spot for a dump, in the middle of nowhere and nobody goes there. Already heavily polluted by years of mining, common sense says dump there.

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  2. idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

    You don't know much about the Eagle Mountain MegaDump Mark. MRC never in over twenty years admitted that the garbage wasn't going into the East Pit. Most casual low-information observers think it's going into the big pit and bury it and it's gone. MRC-Kaiser was not allowed to put it in the pit because there is no way to prevent the leachate (toxic garbage juice) from getting into the groundwater. We know the guy who had the job of pumping ground water out of the bottom of the pit for the last two years of operation (1981-83). Great Big piles of garbage (up to 650 feet thick) put hundreds of pounds of pressure on the liner system (about 600 psi). The stepped ledges of the East pit would deform and tear the liner under that pressure. So they just decided to use all those side canyons north and west of the East pit to fill with 700 million tons of Garbage (thats the red outline above, you did read the article and look at the picture?). No matter how wrong this was, they continued this absurd plan. Twenty years of dirty politics and lies, before it was eventually defeated at the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court (a right wing one at that). Now Kaiser Ventures have paid lobbyists to do some more dirty work to have this "less regulation-more jobs" bill passed to avoid the state required bonding (20-40 million dollars) to mine an abandoned (28 years) mine site. How much more corruption do you want to condone?

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  3. desertrider desertrider says:

    Only the red outlined part would be the dump? Or would that part be included with the rest of the disturbed land to the South?
    We are going to need another place in the near future for Morongo Basin refuse since the Landers refuse site only has a few more years left.
    Maybe they could shape it like a giant triangle to fit in with DHS new decor.

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      Oh I think we have put up with all the corruption we can handle from the Environmentalists that have for years held up this project in one way or the other.... It is a hole in the ground that needs filling up. Trash is from the earth unless we are taking trash from Uranus. Dumping it there is as good a spot as any.... We are of one sovereign state and we as a state need to find a place to dump our trash and garbage as one people.... this place will give us well over 100 years of a place to dump or trash..... Its either that or we dump our trash and garbage over at idavidgraficks house since he thinks he knows what to do with all that garbage and trash that keeps piling up.

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      • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

        Dan, you'll have to look up the meaning of corruption. As Branson referred to his brother-in-laws event, In 1983 Kaiser Executive officers ran off to Canada with $500 million dollars of Kaiser pensioners money. They were chased down and caught, all that was left was $71 million and three big holes in the ground. It's been downhill from there for the Kaiser retirees.

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        • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

          the smart ones cashed out when it closed, the not so smart ones lost. sad but true you have to protect yourselves from the greedy, and it is not getting any better, just look at all the perceived equity lost in housing.

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          • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

            I don't know that much about pensions, but usually they are distributed on a monthly basis. You're saying that Kaiser employees shouldn't have trusted their company in 1983, yet after all Kaiser has done since then (many criminal, highly unethical dirty deeds for thirty years) some of you people are trusting them to do the right thing now? RRrrrriiiggghhhhhtttttttt.

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              I'd say you don't know much about Kaiser Pensions either... but it doesn't seem to stop you from running off at the mouth.

              By they way.... would you like to give us a run down on all those "Criminal", "Highly unethical dirty deeds" kaiser has supposedly done?? You are one claiming.... sounds more like you are throwing crap against a wall and seeing if something sticks.

              Being all simpletons, maybe you can enlighten us, Give us URL source and reference so that we all might look at your facts.

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    • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

      Yes Desertrider, ONLY the mountains and canyons within the red outline would contain the 700 million tons of GARBAGE. None of the East Pit would be used. The greatly disturbed East Pit would not be used at all. It's not going in the EAST PIT. None of it is going in that hole. Nada-None-Zero-Nothing-Null-Zip-Nyet-NO is going into the pit!!!!!!

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      • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

        Sounds like we have 700 million tons of waste to dispose of, where do you suggest? where do you dump your waste or do you generate any?

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        • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

          wait 700 million tons? that would be 50,000 lbs per person for socal's 28 million residents, now i am thinking that is a lot of dung.

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          • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

            The 700 million tons would be the permitted amount. According to the proposal, that would be 117 years of twenty thousand tons per day. That's seven trains a mile long, stacked double decker with forty foot modified storage containers. The garbage would supposedly come from MRFs (Material Recovery Facility) that would be collecting the garbage from trucks and put on trains to come to Eagle Mountain.
            In 1998 dollars, the cost per ton to just ship it to the gates of Eagle Mountain would be $25-38 per ton. Fuel costs have at least doubled since then.
            You do understand, I've been working against this dump since 1994 and you people are practically un-armed in the fact department.

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            • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

              where should the twenty thousand tons per day go? no I take that back where should your trash go?

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              Oh I understand that you have been a Classic NIMBY but we have to put our States Garbage someplace. So, I am trying to figure out the down side to this.... With all the facts at your disposal you still have not provided a reasonable and effective long term solution to the States refuse problem. All that you have seemed to do is say... NOT IN MY BACK YARD. That is the major Fact in your quiver of arrows. You do not have a better idea you only know that you do not want it there.

              Do you know of a better hole in the ground that is as remote and has as much capacity within the boundary of The Sovereign State of California that would be able to take the refuse?

              People like you have NO NO NO'ed this state with law suits and the promotion of unreasoned regulations until we have come to a standstill.... No proffered solutions just a million and one reasons to say no...

              And listen when you come on here as idavidgraficks, the reader doesn't know you from Adam, so you saying stupid shit like, "You do understand, I’ve been working against this dump since 1994 and you people are practically un-armed in the fact department."

              No Maybe We don't know just who the f'k we are dealing with... My god you have no idea who I am dealing with and neither do I.... Hell let me put some Mitchum on soz I don't stink like a rube and comb my hair... I had no idea.... We don't know who the hell you are and as far as I can see from your writing you have not said anything that would make you stand out from any other Environmental Nimrod.

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            • Branson Hunter Branson Hunter says:

              Southern California cities need to start thinking about their own waste. Just shipping it out elsewhere when each city spends tens of millions of dollars on redevelopment just isn't cutting it any longer. The technology is there for cities to be responsible and invest in their own infrastructure.

              We all have to begin thinking locally. It will be costly for cities to mine and recycle their own waste and vaporize what's left. But they have the money. It's just being diverted to some sort of Albert Spear architectural ambition and redevelopment fantasy landscape all across SoCal.

              It's a matter of priorities. . . .

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              Well you know you have the opposition on the run and they are out of juice... when they infer those who disagree with them akin to Nazis. (Albert Spear was Adolph Hitlers Timothy Franz Geithner)

              They can't explain why we that disagree are nazis, and if they could it would be of true interest as to how the inter-workings of their minds actually think this stuff up.

              Southern California cities are thinking about their solid waste problems. Many of those cities have agreed to the idea of disposing of that waste in a SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA hole in the ground. A hole by the way that is required by federal law to be filled back in and reclaimed.

              I agree it is a matter of priorities.... Eagle Mountain is a reasonable and viable alternative to Vaporizing Solid Waste. Returning that carbon waste back to the earth by way of burying it and slowly returning it to its base elements is far better than (vaporizing) burning it and creating huge carbon food print. What is it with this Eagle mountain thing that environmentalists would forsake the very tenets of the Global Warming Religion to stop this project?

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            • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

              Dan, filling up and restoring the "hole" is restoring, not reclaiming. BLM does not require mining sites to be "restored", that would be way too costly for the money grubbing (and often deceitful) mining companies. What they are supposed to do is offer a reclaiming proposal, BLM is then supposed to approve it and then the mining company does it. Reclaiming is all dependent on many factors, but isn't supposed to include dumb ideas. Eagle Mountains best reclaiming proposal is the "Give It Back" campaign. Kaiser's proposal of making it a MegaDump was half-assed and didn't add up under scrutiny. They lost and now they only have the support of simpletons

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              You calling everyone who disagrees with you a simpleton? Is that what you are left with after time has proven you to be incorrect in your beliefs and you have wasted years of valuable time and caused immeasurable damage to the environment because of your misguided application of voodoo politically inspired science? We are left with anyone who disagrees with your less that proven hypothesis as a simpleton?? Really?

              Do you think that asinine position is going to win the day here or anywhere else?

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  4. Branson Hunter Branson Hunter says:

    What say you desertrider?

    No mention of the fact that it's surrounded on three sides by a World Heritage Site, and one of America's unique and great National Park.

    Kaiser shamelessly screwed American families out of their retirement. They are miserable scoundrels. My brother-in-law had over 30-years with Kaiser and they stole his retirement and stomped the hopes and dreams of thousands of Americans.

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    • desertrider desertrider says:

      What say I about what Branson?
      What does what it is surrounded by have anything to do with the site? It is already mostly disturbed area.
      What/Who makes it a world heritage site, what/who makes that decision?
      As to the unique and great National Park, the site is not in the unique and great National Park, the site is already mostly disturbed, so anyone that rarely ventures to that part of the unique and great National Park would already see it disturbed.
      You guys all want buffers around your "special" areas, but problem is the definition of buffer is growing by leaps and bounds.
      Where do you propose the waste be sent.
      What say you Branson?
      As far as your brother-in-law I don't know enough on the issue, but you do know that there are no guarantees in life right, and that bad people do exist. Do yo hold as much disdain for this current admin that is stomping the hopes and dreams of millions of Americans?

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      • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

        Desertrider, Kaiser and the BLM agreed back in 1958 when they got National monument land (about 30,000 acres) that when they stopped mining that they would return it to the public. THEY LIED.
        As far as disturbed land, a minor portion (less than 1000 acres of 30,000)has been disturbed. The abuses since then have been well documented. BLM has been wrong in not taking this back over two decades ago. As I mentioned, this Eagle Mountain issue has been a history of deceit, corruption, ineptness and theft.
        This SB 108 just rewards Kaiser to continue their crimes.

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        • Mike Hawkins Mike Hawkins says:

          Isaiah 24:5
          Common English Bible (CEB)

          5 The earth lies polluted
          under its inhabitants,
          for they have disobeyed instruction,
          swept aside law,
          and broken the ancient covenant.

          http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2024:5&version=CEB

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      • Branson Hunter Branson Hunter says:

        desertrider, strategically we need a zeitgeist philosophy of a better understand of how to live on this planet with over eight billion people.

        A direct technical approach to social management of waste is needed. Less waste, less consumption and new and existing state of the art technology. I toured one city waste management site in the Northwest. The city was second largest in the state. They burned their waste at such an incredibly high temperatures it vaporized, and with existing technology there was no damaging to the atmosphere.

        Waste that can’t be mined and recycled is vaporized. There are too many scientist squandering their gift away that does little to advance society.

        Since the American infrastructure takes a back seat to policing the entire globe, for now, we don’t put the waste at the threshold of an important World Heritage Site.

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        • Mark Clemons Mark Clemons says:

          don't waste it by turning it into heat, store it at mega sites
          until we have the technology to re claim the resources. why else would waste management want to control our dumps other than for profit. There is great value in that heap, just wait and see.

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          • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

            Been there, done that, they didn't. Back about 1992, the Broadwell Hazardous Waste Depositary MegaDump was proposed. This involved a number of "shell companies", but the big one behind it was Westinghouse. Broadwell Toxic waste dump (would have been largest toxic dump in the world) was proposed as a toxic waste "storage residual" for future processing by possible magic process (it could happen). That was their premise (just like you're suggesting), but when they were requested to segregate their toxic waste into different categories for much greater ease of "future processing", they refused as too much bother. They really wanted to do it Quick and Dirty. That pretty much showed their intent to DUMP and LEAVE it.
            Broadwell Toxic Waste Dump (ten miles north of Ludlow) was defeated by the political action committee Desert Environmental Response Team. We were given a 2% chance of defeating that by "authorities" in Sacramento. That one also had bribery, lies, deceit, denial of science and fact and common sense, all for a quick buck at the public's expense.
            DERT went on to battle the conventional garbage MegaDump Bolo/Rail-Cycle. I was the president of DERT in the countywide grassroots-4 election battle of 1996. We greatly helped get anti-MegaDump Kathy Davis (1st District) and Dennis Hansberger (3rd District) in office.

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              I who?

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            • Mike Hawkins Mike Hawkins says:

              Hansberger… you remember him Dan, lol. He’s the genius that would have made chain-link fencing illegal had sanity not prevailed. I can see why Fick and company would have campaigned for the guy.

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              We greatly helped get anti-MegaDump Kathy Davis (1st District) and Dennis Hansberger (3rd District) in office.

              So how did that work out for you 15 years later?

              Both were ridden out on a rail for corruption.... That speaks to your organization's and your personal choice of political allies.

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            • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

              Kathy Davis was the best 1st District Supervisor this County has ever had. She was charged by BILL POSTMUS of corruption. She wasn't. She was guilty of not being republican enough to suit the inland empire republicans. Bill Postmus, a 28 year old republican assmblyman field agent, was hand-picked to replace her. The big money went to his false campaign and they won. It's difficult to fight big corporations and their big piles of money and low info voters.
              So, you're rootin for Bill Postmus? Are you advocating HUGE amounts of corruption is good? What point are you trying to make?

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              Well aren't you the finger pointer?

              Reality Check: Kathy Davis was far from the best 1st District County Supervisor we ever had.

              Kathy Davis was non-responsive to her constituents and was arrogant as all get out. It was her lousy governance that brought about a desperation that the voters in the 1st district voted for "Anybody But Davis."

              I mean it is too bad that all three of you members of the Peace and Freedom Party, were not enough of a voting block to swing the election her way.

              She was a complete and total disaster as a supervisor.

              If you have read this site over the years you would have known that I'm no fan of Postmus. I would think as you and Postmus camp in the same tent as it were, you would be firm supporter of Bill and that he could depend on you to being right behind him.

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            • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

              Dan, there's a good display of your thinking. Why in the world would I have any associations with Bill Postmus? I'm a non-partisan voter, I was a strong Kathy Davis supporter (she lost 52-48%), he was a right wing candidate and politician. Your evaluation of Kathy is highly subjective and hearsay, my evaluation of Bill Postmus and the Inland Empire republicans is thru experience, indictments and convictions (and pending judgements and convictions)
              So, why do you think Bill Postmus and I would be in the same tent?

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              Well that is a simple request both of you have taken it upon yourself to take away the right of the people to be decide an issue themselves and take advantage of the system. Postmus while a thief is by far the most honest of the two of you.... He like Empire Board Walk openly sold favor, you on the other hand used the system as I see it, to steal favor.

              There is not much difference in you and he other than what it would have taken to grease your wheels. What was it? Didn't Kaiser offer you enough? Or was it that they refused to pay tribute to you? You both have one hell of an ego to feed.

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  5. Branson Hunter Branson Hunter says:

    This is an interesting and important subject which concerns all of us. Dan, if you can hold the rhetoric, personal attacks and insults -- I think we call all collectively add to this Eagle Mountain discussion.

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      Wait a second Branson... You are the one with the "Albert Spear" inference and then it was the other pompous ass who started with the "Simpleton" line.... I'd say that both of you need to hold down the rhetoric and stop with the personal attacks and insults.... Don't you dare twist this as if I started the name calling... Both of you follow the above thread and see who the name callers are.

      Just because I believe and time has proven that the Eagle Mountain debacle was a waste of valuable time in the solving of the every growing solid-waste problem, does not make me a "Simpleton or a follower of Albert Spear."

      I disagree with this fellows "Theory" and no amount of name calling on your part is going to change that. I believe it was worth the risk, it would have brought jobs to the area and would have been on balance a positive and environmentally sound option. The positive would have far outweighed the negatives.

      The failure to make the eagle mountain dump a reality was based upon political expediency and had nothing to do with real science. It was a different time and a different political landscape... to suggest that it would go the same way today is a huge leap of faith that neither of you should make.

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      • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

        Stupid Shit, Environmental Nimrod? Nimby? I'm none of that, I've been to hundreds of hours of meetings involving garbage and landscape. I've talked and conferred with landfill lining designers, neutron-logging monitor inventors (under most highly dangerous storage areas throughout the world), waste management people, biologists, geologists, groundwater experts, parkservice people, railroad people, Air-quality management (both Mojave and LA's), County planning staff and have read (and comprehended) thousands of pages of EIS and EIRs and related materials. I have the 25,000 page Administrative Record to the civil case involving the S.B. County Bolo/Rail-Cycle Battle ( I was at all court hearings) Yes Dan, you seem to be an obstinate simpleton on this issue. When I have repeatedly said the the garbage isn't going in the pit, when there is no proof that the garbage is going into the pit, when even Kaiser can't say it's going into the pit (they infer, but just don't discuss the matter at all), when there is an aerial photo at the top of story with a BIG RED OUTLINE where ALL THE GABAGE IS PROPOSED TO GO, you still insist it's going into the pit. Listen to your wife, It ain't going in that hole. I think further facts, being a bit more subtle, would be contested every inch of the way by you or your seem to be cohorts. That would require a large amount of time (which I don't have). Most of the "proof" is not online, but in court documents, EIRs and media that would take lots of time to furnish. I was warned that your blog was at times a stupid tarbaby of inane remarks that don't deserve the respect of an answer. I didn't want the un-informed remarks by you and some others to stand, as some people might take them as fact. I now have to get back to work, Bye for now.

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        • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

          My aren't you the testy little devil.... Tisk tisk my aren't we the name caller? Goodness gracious.

          Whether it goes in the canyons and gullies or the pit... it seems a good place for it.... out of sight and if properly done as safe as any place..

          So Answer Mark Clemons question: where should the twenty thousand tons per day go? no I take that back where should your trash go?

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          • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

            And by the way the best 1st District Supervisor was unarguably a fellow named William Anthony Betterley (1924-2011) He served between December 2, 1968, to December 4, 1972, even by present standards he was great, read Brad Mitzelfelt's eulogy.

            see here: http://www.vote29.com/newmyblog/archives/18326

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  6. Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

    Looks to me like a Mayan cry to the Space Gods for some Viagra!

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  7. isaachagerman isaachagerman says:

    Like I have said before David Fick and his jobless cronies are like eco terrorists. In Somalia terrorist use guns and hijack boats to extort money from shipping companies, in the Morongo Basin Fick uses Joshua Trees and tortoise to extort money from people. Stick to your hut in JT David and possibly go out and look for gainful employment. Your rhetoric is getting old. Stop extorting money from hard working people.

    PS. Still waiting to hear what happens to the Fick household trash.

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    • Branson Hunter Branson Hunter says:

      Councilman Isaac, no problem disagreeing with David Flick. However...

      ... since you are a City Councilman you defile the dignity of the office you hold with this repugnant, shocking personal attack on Mr. Flick's character. Your post is a blatant disgrace and insult to all Americans. Simply put, you are not public servant material. My relatives gave their all for Mr. Flick to voice his opinion and his rights as an American activist. You have just fouled the air they once breathed.

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      • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

        On the other hand, My Relatives gave their all for guys like Mr. Hagerman to express their opinion. So I guess we both have relatives that have given their all (what ever that is) for our users to express their opinions.

        Thank god my relatives managed to not only serve but survive the conflicts that would have required them to "give their all," or I would not be here.

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        • Branson Hunter Branson Hunter says:

          Isaac is acting like a thug. He's also in violation of the basic ethics training of FPPC 1234.

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          • Mike Hawkins Mike Hawkins says:

            “WAAA WAAA WAAA - MOMMY, ISAAC IS BEING MEAN - WAAA WAAA WAAA”

            BFD! GIVE US A FREAKING BREAK HOLSTROM.

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      • isaachagerman isaachagerman says:

        Very touching comment Ben. It would of meant so much more if I actually gave your thoughts any consideration.

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        • Branson Hunter Branson Hunter says:

          Councilman Isaac, I hate to rag on you because in spite of the perceptions of many I think you have the capability to be a really nice guy. You should constantly remind yourself you are a public official and, as such, the expectations are higher. More importantly, you are required to represent every one of your constituents -- including David Ficks and residents that believe the environment is important. You have to work on this and not placate those nasty attacks against some people.

          Understand?

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          • desertrider desertrider says:

            Branson, does that mean he is not allowed his own opinion? Most officials are elected because of their beliefs/stance on issues. It is virtually if not actually impossible to represent every viewpoint and get anything accomplished.
            Are you saying those that are for the dump, don't believe the environment important?

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    • idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

      Oh look, here comes Curly, son of a preacherman. How ya doing? "you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist and you're a terrorist" isn't really cutting it Isaac. Now you want me to dust off my resume and apply to be a Walmart greeter? That might be a problem, you see, I'm over qualified. They would see that I'm a graduate of California Institute of the Art (CalArts-that Disney school, as well as my wife in 1977). John Baldessari (yeah, look him up) was my mentor. I studied fine art screenprinting and got good enough for Kawasaki Heavy Industries (yes, that Kawasaki) to find me for my services that Japan couldn't do. It was hand separation for screenprint of a priceless image by Japanese Artist Hokusai in 1982. The extremely rare 65 color screenprint was on view to the public at the Open Studio tours visit to our studio. That was before 2008. Ever since the WalMart issue (and the accompanying threats), our fine art screenprinting studio will never be open to the public. We've done much more screenprint work for artists of renown including Robert Williams, David Hockney, John Van Hammersveld and many others. In fact, if you want a glimpse of the studio, go to youtube, search for Robert Williams-Idavid Graficks-Waterhead print. Thats a three and a half minute video about the 144 color serigraph, one of the finest in the western world, really.
      We've been rated by some (actually the finest screenprinter in the world, Michael Caza) as easily being among the top ten fine art screenprinting studios in capability in the US. We've had a home occupation permit since 1990, just sayin.
      So, WalMart will be missing a very over-qualified greeter and so much for me looking for gainful employment. As far as your other assertions, they're even more off base. If you're really good and behave, I'll tell you (and the other hostile people) what I do with my "trash' in about five days. There should be about a hundred comments by then and maybe we'll have some news.

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      • desertrider desertrider says:

        Looks like someone was just waiting for an excuse to talk about themselves and drop some names.
        Is everyone as impressed as I am.
        I rode Baja California with Malcolm Smith, am a distant relative of George Washington and once boated past John Wayne's house in Newport.

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  8. Scots Slant Scots Slant says:

    Hey, O'Brien, you need to take a vacation; you seem upset.

    By the way, check out the mega-dumps early Environmental Impact Report.

    Seems the report didn't report pertinent information. Little stuff like air quality, groundwater contamination, hazards to the neighboring Park.

    Got to wonder why the entity paying for the report chose not to include that information....

    Oh, and Scot's Slant? That'd be S.E. McKone.

    Really, take that vacation....

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      Hey, McKone who would admin this circus if I went on a vacation?

      What you might do like we told your little friend present your facts, stop with the intellectual laziness... give us source and urls... You just spouting off isn't winning the day here. I am not moved to go look up your talking points for you.

      OMG it's S.E. McKone... I am humbled.....

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      • Branson Hunter Branson Hunter says:

        Dan, take the photo down. It's an abuse of your administration duties. When recently someone put up a unflattering photo of Gary D. you were outraged and took it down. Now you are the perpetrator.

        You actions seem to want to run people out of this blog. The hits are way down. Let's both work to bring it back to its former status where people came to Cactus Thorns in mass for interesting posts and information. Why put in the effort and time for local news and commentary, when it only gets a couple hundred of reads?

        Bury the ego for a moment. Work to better this blog.

        Thanks.

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        • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

          Seriously Ben, is every statement made to you in private subject to you bringing it to the public? I'm truly shocked by your lack of loyalty to your friend of 20+ years. You would give up the trust of 20+ years of friendship to make a point in the defense of these two guys who have presented no facts and no viable alternatives? Really??

          So you think airing dirty laundry is going to make these guys argument better? What I suggested to you, in a Confidential phone conversation, was we did not need to antagonize Gary D because he had not done or said anything that would have warranted it lately. Just because you hate the guys guts does not mean that this blog is going to be used as a launching ramp for your diatribes against him. When he needs scolding he will receive a scolding but he does not deserve continual gratuitous insults.

          I haven't chased these two off they have had their say and continue to prattle on. They really haven't said anything I believe of any intelligence and nothing that advances their argument, but they have had their say and continue to do so.

          The problem is they have presented no facts that support their argument.

          What the picture of gore???

          Well as for your reads.... I think that they are based upon subject matter. I don't think any of us including you, have been putting up the usual quality of stories lately that would garner several thousand reads... I can only post what is given to me. I personally have been happy with my reads

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          • Branson Hunter Branson Hunter says:

            Dan, have you forgot that Scott build the Cactus Thorns soap box derby car that won first place in its driver age group classification. Is your sarcasm and insults the playback he gets for his hard work, his skills and his good will.

            I was unaware that it was confidential information that you took down that unflattering avatar that someone put up to represent Gary. It very appropriate you took it down. I too was concerned someone surreptitiously posted the avatar of Gary. Btw, I don’t hate Gary. You know that. He is an important person to this community. Why would you say a horrible thing like "I hate his guts."

            I don’t see it as a big deal drawing a comparison between that image & the previous avatar you posted of Scott. I also think you are attempting to making a mountain out of a mole hill so as to confuse readers and control the discussion to muster up something that is not an issue. So you removed an avatar. Since when is that confidential communications between us?

            Yes we have been friends since I first moved to this the Morongo Basin eleven years ago. Why the off-topic drama? Let me respectfully refresh your memory that you posted a personal article about three months assuring the world Cactus Thorns was open to everyone and that you were going to focus on being a good administrator. I asked if the MBCA was included and you nodded they were. Now, I’m thinking you believed it at the time but have slid backwards.

            I think many readers want to learn from the discussions on Eagle Mountain and Kaiser. It’s an important issue to the community. Why attack new posters who add to the discussion?

            Let's get back to the Eagle Mountain discussion. This off-topic drama is bullshit.

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              Well he might make a fine car but his politics suck. And have these guys not been able to post? Well??? You just want them to be able to post with out comment or decent.... well that ain't going to happen....

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      • Mike Hawkins Mike Hawkins says:

        ...irreverent barbs...

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  9. Scots Slant Scots Slant says:

    Intellectual laziness? Please....

    O'kay Dan, here is the link you requested; hate to see a guy straining his milk typing those keys.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1994-07-27/news/mn-20327_1_eagle-mountain

    I am flattered that you are humbled; you may rise good and faithful servant....

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      A flipping LA Times article... Are you serious???? A 1994 article yet? Here is the salient point of that article today:

      ...Joel Moskowitz, attorney for Eagle Mountain's opponents, said the judge's rejection of the impact report was not necessarily the project's death knell.

      "Clearly they can fix the EIR--the environmental equivalent of truth in advertising--by rewriting it to properly disclose the environmental effects of the project," he said. "But having done so, they've then got to go back to the decision-makers for judgment on whether the environmental consequences are too high to pay for this facility."

      So today the proponents of this project have come back with what they feel is a better plan and began to use the system to represent the project in a more palatable form to the State and the Courts... It took awhile and while you might not like it, that's the way the system is supposed to work.

      So Scot, You give us your idea of a reasonable alternative to this and where do you plan on disposing of the 700 Million Tons of Garbage that this project plans to handle?

      Its easy to say no but its a whole other thing that we now are asking you guys.... Stop with the Nimby-ism and come up with a better solution.... Come smart guy.... give us your idea..

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      • Scots Slant Scots Slant says:

        Typical. Just because it's a, "flipping L.A. Times article," and not the Wall Street Journal, the information is not to be believed.

        The information provided was not a liberal Times editorial; it was news.

        You ignored the entire point of my original post: "Environmental consequences are too high to pay for this facility."

        That sentence is in the Times article and that is why environmental concerns were not addressed in the EIR. And again the question: Why would the entities who are party to the EIR not clearly spell out the hazards associated with this project?

        Now where to put the dump? How am I supposed to know? How about B.F.E.?

        "Nimby-ism"? Not.

        By the way, when you posted that photo next to my name you got me mixed up with your third cousin Otis. When you go to visit him on your vacation tell him he needs a bath....

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        • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

          You actually think they are not going to have their I's dotted and their T's Crossed?

          What are you talking about... “Environmental consequences are too high to pay for this facility.”???????????? Obviously not they're back!!!! Seriously Scot.... you think they have not anticipated your every argument? Its been pretty easy... I have.

          B.F.E.? Like Eagle Mountain?

          Typical.... Can't answer the simplest of questions.

          ONE MORE TIME: So Scot, You give us your idea of a reasonable alternative to this and where do you plan on disposing of the 700 Million Tons of Garbage that this project plans to handle?

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  10. Scots Slant Scots Slant says:

    Top of the mornin' to ya Dan. I already told you I had no idea where to put the garbage, but since you insist, take it to Uranus; after all, that was your proposal when you told Fick that was a good place for it.

    Who am I to argue with you?

    Yep, Uranus sounds like a good place to dump it....

    And again, would you please take down that ridiculous photo of your cousin that you posted in my spot? Life has not been quite that rough for me.

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      What I said was and I quote:It is a hole in the ground that needs filling up. Trash is from the earth unless we are taking trash from Uranus. Dumping it there is as good a spot as any….

      Because you can not read a post, Both you and Fick need to take a reading comprehension class, we are left with your misquotes. So I guess we are stuck with doing Uranus Jokes for the day.... How old are you.... mentally.... 8...9???

      Photo??? Oh you mean your Avatar. Well if you were as smart as you think you are you would have figured that you have the ability to change your avatar all by your lonesome, anytime diddums wants.

      What the reader has gotten from you and Fick so far, is you do not want a mega-dump but you an Fick have no idea what to do in alternative. Other than of course shoving it up Uranus.

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  11. Scots Slant Scots Slant says:

    Hello Dan,

    It was nearly a year ago you invited me to post on your website and you don't even roll out the Welcome Wagon to greet me; I'm crushed...

    Maybe my comprehension skills are limited but I thought the math added up(2+2)to your quoted statement.

    If I miscalculated the conclusion of what you implied, I beg a thousand pardons....

    Mental Age? ahhh...let's see...hmmm...I guess about 52?

    You should have asked emotional age; that would be a tough one.

    Avatar? What's that? I thought it was a movie.

    And "Diddums"? Now that's funny!

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      ONE MORE TIME: Give us your idea of a reasonable alternative to this plan. Where do you plan on disposing of the 700 Million Tons of Garbage that this project plans to handle?

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  12. idavidgraficks idavidgraficks says:

    Dan, You're still working on that hole in the ground. The east pit is no part of the Eagle Mountain MegaDump. If you have great trouble comprehending that fact, what chance do we have in you understanding 14 different ways to deal with garbage. The was a landfill alternative workshop hosted by the Riverside County Board of Supervisors in 1998. It was two days, 8 hours each day, describing in detail different methods and their difficulties and attributes. From processes that shred household garbage-segregate it into 21 catagories- remix it with epoxy resin (1-20 ratio)- then extrude exterior building materials at between 350-2600 psi and a cost of $15 a ton to processes that circulate garbage in a closed loop that tunnels down about a mile and a quarter (using heat of the earth) and comes back as ash in one hundredth the volume. How about composting accelerators that do the job of composting about fifty times faster with organic materials, with resulting mulch. There's plenty more, but you'll fight it every way with this hostile attitude.
    The Eagle Mountain MegaDump battle issues mostly happened before 1999, there is little on the web or the news media's relating to it other than the Federal court battles. That goes for Broadwell Toxic Waste MegaDump and also Bolo/Rail-Cycle MegaDump.
    You seem to be rooting for the fact of carting garbage hundreds of miles at three times the cost of dealing with it at it's generated source. MegaDumps were proposed by Waste-Hauler Corporations (Waste Management, BFI, Western Waste, etc.) because they make money -HAULING WASTE!!! That was their answer. They wrote that California waste law AB 935 long ago, so they could have their MegaDumps. The cities didn't want the liability of owning leaking landfills while taking other people's garbage. They have lots of money to ply on politicians and lobbyists to do their dirty work. I do have a seven page article written for Hi-Desert Magazine about the Eagle Mountain MegaDump struggle up to 1998 in PDF form. It has plenty of information that included lots of factual info, exposing many of their dirty dealings and we didn't get sued by MRC-Kaiser Ventures.
    I haven't even read many of the comments above yet, but your hostility really doesn't deserve this attention. I did notice that Isaac H. has entered with his usual hate filled rant (s).
    What are we at here? 57 comments, Will anybody notice us way down here?

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      Now I don't think I have been obscure or for that matter hostile in my request for you to give our readers an alternative to this new project? Firm... demanding of the truth, yes... hostile no. I'd say you are a little thin skinned.

      You still have not answered the question.

      It would seem that you don't like the democratic process of a republican form of government. Now if the process works in your favor it is okey dokey but god forbid that the opposition uses that same political process.

      One more time, …Joel Moskowitz, attorney for Eagle Mountain’s opponents, said the judge’s rejection of the impact report was not necessarily the project’s death knell.

      “Clearly they can fix the EIR–the environmental equivalent of truth in advertising–by rewriting it to properly disclose the environmental effects of the project,” he said. “But having done so, they’ve then got to go back to the decision-makers for judgment on whether the environmental consequences are too high to pay for this facility.”

      They have come up with a new plan and I would assume a new EIR. You guys seem to be resting on your laurels. Do you think that they have not learned a thing or two about dealing with radical environmentalist?

      So let me get this straight.... You don't like that fact that the waste companies use the political process. You don't like it when Kaiser comes up with a new idea for an old problem. You don't like it when mining operations do assay work to keep their claims alive and you do not like Kaiser's reclamation plans.

      You do realize that just like Kaiser, you have to keep up with the times and be current in your responses. This rehash of 1990s information that you seem to want us to rely upon is really ridiculous. And then you refuse to present it and only refer to it... But hey there is a "PDF" somewhere.

      What you tell me is, "I do have a seven page article written for Hi-Desert Magazine about the Eagle Mountain MegaDump struggle up to 1998 in PDF form." but no URL to download it. What kind of source is that? That is nothing more than another editorial by yourself to back your editorializing today. A 1998 opinion piece to back up a 2011 opinion. That is the classic, Garbage in - Garbage out.

      Hostility? You got to be kidding... What is the prerequisite to being your friend Dave? Is it to blindly let you climb up on our soap box and not call you out when you are wrong? Look you are the one who comes here with a chip on is shoulder..... You just found someone who will call "bull Shit" when I see it.

      So once again what is your alternative plan in relationship to this newest Eagle Mountain Project....

      Oh by the way, you what to write a well thought and sourced article about what you would do ... I will post it posthaste.

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    • " 57 Comments, will anybody notice us way down here?" Answer: Only the die-hard participants will follow down this dark cavernous journey observing each trying to blow out each's others candles.

      While I am rather new to this blog, I have always been attracted to the thoughtful and constructive comments to the debates that have taken place, usually by intelligent men, with an abundance of male hormones, except Isaac Hagerman.

      At a certain point, I realize this exchange sometimes may evolve into a brutal scene from Spartacus. I am not a fan of blood sports, not because I am squimish, but the question remains, "What for?"

      I am going to excerpt this article to a new post. The working title is "What to Do.....with our Doo-Doo." (Remember working title)

      Writing from my sick bed I feel there should be an opportunity to INFORM the readers, flex the male brain....not that other thing, and offer some solutions outside the box.

      Not sure if this is the 59th or 60th comment, but I would have to say.....
      "It has petered out." (Pun intended)

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  13. @ Gary Daigneault- Respectfully requesting permission to post the pdf. 1998 story that was published in your Hi-Desert Magazine entitled, "DERT on Eagle Mountain MegaDump."

    Thanks.

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