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Its Official Johnson Valley OHV Area being Closed By Base

By   /   March 9, 2011  /   63 Comments

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Marine Corps releases DEIS (3-9-11) | The Lucerne Valley Leader

By KRIS REILLY, Editor

It’s official: The U.S. Marine Corps is planning to take over a large portion of the Johnson Valley Off-Highway Vehicle Area.

The Marines published their draft environmental impact statement (DEIS) on Feb. 25. It confirmed what many local residents already feared: much of Johnson Valley OHV would be closed permanently for training exercises as part of the Twentynine Palms base expansion plan.

A smaller portion would be used by the Marines for training two months out of the year, and another portion will remain open for public use .

The closest public meeting on the matter will be held at the Hilton Garden Inn in Victorville on April 14 at 5 p.m. Two other meetings are planned for Ontario (April 13) and Joshua Tree (April 12).

A message was left last Friday on the project’s public comment line asking why there are no meetings planned for Johnson Valley or Lucerne Valley, but the call was not returned as of press time on Monday afternoon.

The plan must go through several stages of approval before it goes into effect. The public comment period on the DEIS ends May 26.

Contact project representatives vie e-mail at SMBPLMSWEBPAO@usmc.mil, via regular mail at MAGTFTC, MCAGCC, Bldg. 1554, Box 788104, Twentynine Palms, CA 92278-8104, by phone at (760) 830-3764 or visit http://www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/las/ for more details.

Under the Marines’ current timeline, a final environmental impact statement would be completed by December.

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Dan OBrien

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Cactus Thorns has been online in one form or the other since 2001. What started as a personal blog documenting the corruption and lack of Due Process of the 29 Palms Community Development Department has turned into over these many years into a hugely popular Independent Alternative News Media Outlet. We have partnered with other media including The Desert Star Weekly, Joshua Tree Star, other blogs, indie media and an incredible staff of volunteer Reporters, Commentators and Opinion Makers to create one of the most read, honest and dependable alternative to the Local traditional Media services in the country. Thanks to you the reader we are in the 5% of most read sites in the World.

63 Comments

  1. h2 says:

    Only Marines and hot dog vendors will be allowed...
    Bad news for everybody. Squeezing the area will push more riders towards the Rodmans and more sensitive areas. If they truly need it, give the Marines what they require and in exchange the BLM could open a different area to absorb the impact.
    Easier said then done with government.
    Could be an opportunity for 29. An OHV zoning. Sell any included cabins in the zone off to weekenders or vendors. Throw in a tortoise rescue fringe toed sanctuary and redo some of the work of the old jeep clubs to keep us green whackos happy and there you go.

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  2. Richard Myers Richard says:

    Time for every off roader in Calif to STOP buying green stickers,,,EVERYONE, cut the head off the snake.
    Closing this area only promotes illegal off roading even more...............nobody seems to get it, the masses follow the easy path.
    When will the off road community have the balls to do the same thing the evro wackos do, take the guberment to court.

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    • h2 says:

      That's basically what I was trying to say. Even those who remain on legal land will overburden what is left.

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    • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

      The Green Sticker, in effect it's taxation without representation. Or at least constitutionally applied representation.
      It seems to me that the eco groups see this as h2 see's it. A way to cram us together to create chaos and overburden a smaller portion of land to justify their position. That is, use offroad overuse as a prooftext to support their argument that we cannot use any land without abusing it.

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      • h2 says:

        It's a simple fact that you just can't have it all. Nobody does. You have to share with others. There are thus limitations on us all. Unfortunately it does take cramming you into certain areas. I'll bet you haven't been to but a few of them while one could spend days riding the existing roads. It's nobody's fault but yours if you want to hang in the same small area. I guess it is easier to complain and play the underdog. That seems to be the trend anymore.

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        • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

          Who's land is it in the first place? It's not about sharing either. It's about favoring one lobbying group over another by the democratically controlled state. The group in favor gets to ride for free. No pun intended. Generally when an area is closed off no one uses it afterwards. I just called the forest service today as they closed the gates to a popular trail by my home. They better have a good explanation. Please don't be seduced into believing that you have to give up recreation areas so that you can feel that your being fair to groups that have zero interest in SHARING. That's not their goal. Extinction of the off roaders is. I remember fighting S/21. When the Eco groups got their final version passed they were amazed. They were expecting to only close part of the abusive land grab. Please answer this, are there more off roaders than there were 10 years ago? Are there more areas to to ride than 10 years ago? I'm sure you answered correctly. More riders paying the green sticker extortion tax to ride in less areas.
          Take a look at a California map. You then think about how much is actually open to recreation vehicles. No I don't want it all, Just a little piece and it keeps getting nibbled away by the greenies. I'm still pissed about the green sticker money stolen by riverside county from the now defunct De Anza Cycle Park.

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          • h2 says:

            That's because 40 years ago you had the whole damn desert. There was no enforcement. Ruined it for others, but yeah, you had more freedom. Like all things political the pendulum swings to the other extreme often not ever swinging back. That should have been dealt with 40 years ago. Some tried. Instead restrictions were required to deal with the kaos. Overboard perhaps. Perhaps not. Come up with a better plan.

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            • desertrider desertrider says:

              BS 40 years ago there was not that many OHV users.
              And the ones that did exist were of the two wheeled variety.
              There was/is not the wanton destruction that is being claimed, not until around 05-06 with the influx of the "educated san fransican types" did this even become a trumped up issue.
              Papa is right. It's about the abolishment of off-roading, they have been attempting through many different means to do so.
              I attended many WEMO meetings it was about falsely claiming OHV's running over Tortoises,look at how they shut down giant portions of glamis, how about pismo

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            • h2 says:

              They were called dune buggies and had 4 wheels. Most were VeeDubs with a few Covairs. Then came the "Thing". Where were you? Pismo was always crowed. Not a good place to ride anyway. Just straight beach full of people. Locals people went to the peninsula in Morro, Actually behind the golf course in Baywood Park.
              I wouldn't doubt a small number of tortoises getting ran over in their dens. I don't know how one would collect evidence of this. I doubt there were witnesses and I wouldn't doubt most of the stories are exaggerations or flat out lies. That goes on with both sides of a heated issue. Like saying it is a family event. So is incest. For many it's about drinking beer and chasing down jacks. You talk about the San Fran types...well we also have the Orange County types who don't give a damn about the desert. It is just a place for mega dumps and transmission lines. A place to tear up. Much closer than Frisco. Get a $1000 bike from the Recycler and boom, you're an off roader.Any fool can do it. Being a local, I will give you respect. Chances are you respect the desert. Grouping yourself with the entire so called "community" makes me wonder though. It is not a community, just a hodge podge of individuals. Some good, some bad. If you do insist on it being a community, then clean it up.

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            • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

              h2, aka Phil Klasky, your castigating the off road community with rampant abuse of the desert. Though you try to distance your self from that argument by saying some good, some bad. You want to give desertrider the benefit of the doubt on not being part of the some bad group why don't you afford the same respect that as a local that cares that he wouldn't defend the off road community as a whole if he as a local felt it was destructive to the local desert environment? Where is the outrage about critters being run over by vehicles on local roads or highways? You see, I hate the dualistic ideology of double standard loony left.

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        • Richard Myers Richard says:

          h2 that rant was retarded or you have no clue about the off road sport/racing/trail riding. It shows a EW agenda, it is not just about riding down dirt roads on a street bike, because that is what you are talking about.
          There are more people than ever involved in off road as a family recreation. There are fewer places than at anytime in my 40+ years riding and racing.
          Have it all?.......dude I have seen first hand the land loss over 40 years because we as a group have tried to work with the system, play nice as it were. While the envro turds filed lawsuit after lawsuit, time to stop playing nice, it's about money and if the motorized recreation industry decides to stop playing nice, Mr.Brown and the BLM are going to start sucking wind.

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          • Mike says:

            A couple of clues for h2…

            The “VW Thing” was never more than a “Yuppie Thing”
            Pismo was not always crowded and does in fact have very nice dunes.
            Tortoises do not den in sand dunes, think it over. Or, better yet try it yourself lol.

            Ok H2: It appears you are addressing desertrider when you say – “If you do insist on it being a community, then clean it up”.

            I think you owe desertrider an apology h2 because he is successfully doing exactly what you so impolitely demand! In fact he and his wife have dedicated the last five years of there lives tirelessly serving an organization they helped create for just that purpose!

            What have you done lately h2? Write unknowledgeable bull shit to a blog?

            Desertrider authored the following credo adapted by the Friends Of Giant Rock (visit their site and be the wiser)

            WHO ARE WE?
            We are a family oriented off-road group, dedicated to making better neighbors of ourselves, especially our youth. This is an area of concern to everyone and by mitigating conflict between urbanization and recreation, we can successfully promote this tremendous outdoor sport to the benefit of all. ----It's a job that needs doing! With your help, we can do it.-------
            WHAT CAN YOU DO TO HELP?
            1. Write letters to county and state representatives.
            2. Be a responsible rider! Prove to the anti-OHV groups that we are safe, courteous and environmentally friendly.
            3. Have legal and safe vehicles with spark arresters and quiet pipes (excessively loud vehicles are our worst enemies).
            4. Drive slowly on dirt roads near homes/neighborhoods, people, animals and other vehicles. 5. Teach others to be respectful and responsible. Use common sense.
            6. Be respectful to law and code enforcement officers. 7. Join Friends Of Giant Rock.

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              You've got that right. Desertrider and his family is what Off-Roading is all about. Law abiding,family oriented sportsmen. A gentle giant of a man.

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            • h2 says:

              Well kudos to desert rider. They should all be like him. Are they? Some are like I have said. Some aren't. It is not a community. Just like I can't speak for every hiker out there. Most are but I still find trash on the trail. My "community" is no different. They need guidelines, restrictions. Come up with a better plan and I'll listen. All I hear now is whining. Must be republicans.
              I lived in SLO and Los Osos 41 years
              ago. Spent the summers anyway. I know Pismo. Used to be good clam digging. It was busy then. The dunes were getting destroyed.
              Speaking of the dunes, ever hear of the "dunies"?

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            • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

              h2, Have you been out for the weekend with any RV groups in the last 10 years or so? I'm going to go out on a limb and answer for you, NO. You can prove me wrong but so far nothing you have stated is based on personal experience but by typecasting. I have I can will tell you that you are dead wrong in your uninformed opinion. As a matter of fact most of the trail clean up in California is done by Four Wheel Drive Groups. A good portion of the crap the pick up is actually left out by hikers that don't want to carry their garbage out. I believe in pack it in pack it out. Even when I'm riding a dirt bike there is seldom a time that leave the desert a better place than before I came. Please don't speak on your views based on stereotype. Please base them on actual findings thru personal and recent experience. Findings from back when you went to High School with Abraham Lincoln aren't relevant.

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          • h2 says:

            It is an overreaction to a overreaction to an uncontrolled mess created by off roaders. Jeep clubs and individuals have tried to bring some order.There were just too many individuals that did not care. It did not and still isn't working. Too bad. Families will survive with out it.

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            • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

              H2, your observations on Oceano (Pismo) dunes is absolute bull crap. And our Friend Kevin Rice up in Pismo is about to show you why.

              httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UJlbt_YOAQ&feature=player_profilepage

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            • Oceano Dunes became a part of California's very first highway on September 4, 1769, when the Spanish Portola expedition passed through, thus establishing the historic El Camino Real route, now moved inland and known as Pacific Coast Highway.

              Sometime around 1905 automobiles appeared on the beach and were a natural fit. Autos provided access to the miles of scenic dune and ocean views, to picnicking on the beach, and more importantly to the coveted Pismo Clam. Soon, the long, flat beach gained a reputation as a good place to drive fast and race. But no one was driving off the beach and in the dunes yet, as tires and automobiles simply weren't up to it.

              I copied and pasted from http://www.off-roadweb.com/features/1011or_oceano_dunes_what_is_it_worth/closure_threats.html

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            • desertrider desertrider says:

              H2 apparently you miss my point and I will just touch slightly on it here.
              Yes all of those vehicles existed 40 years ago but the numbers of people that utilized them was small compared to today, so to say this all started 40 years ago is BS. This all started 10 years or so ago when the so called envro groups began their reign of terror. We have tirelessly attempted to work things out honestly, sincerely and equitably for all sides with the likes of COW only to to be maligned,ignored and out and out lied about to this day.
              And by the way I am an OC resident but my heart always has been (at least for the last 37 plus years) in the Morongo Basin and my love for the desert flora, fauna and lifestyle is unceasing, until Mr klasky and friends rode into town in their hybrids I had hoped to someday make the basin my families permanent home.
              And I can assure you I spent more than a $1000 on my ride not to mention my families machines.
              So like all other issues the left chooses to attack, they cannot do so without lies, falsehoods and contrivances.
              There already was a perfectly legit and functional OHV law on the books in San Bernardino County that if it had been enforced or least tried would have been sufficient to curb the minute number of negative OHV issues. (As Ned Flanders hippie parents once said to the therapist "We've tried nothing and nothing works")
              But that was not the angle of our SF imports.
              They had all those illegal vacation rentals they wanted to overcharge Japanese businessmen for, and the OHV families that had been there for decades did not fit into that equation.
              So for your last bit of BS
              "It is an overreaction to a overreaction to an uncontrolled mess created by off roaders. Jeep clubs and individuals have tried to bring some order.There were just too many individuals that did not care. It did not and still isn’t working. Too bad. Families will survive with out it."
              Is just that BS. Why are we the ones that just get to survive, what about (as the "cows" like to claim for themselves) our right to the pursuit of happiness.
              Because of people like you and klasky my sons will never get to enjoy the freedom of exploring the desert like I did on a motorcycle. And I know, I know why not hike it?
              I have and do hike it, but a person on foot will never get to see as much and as many different places.
              So much for my touching slightly, next time I'll really give my opinion.
              PS. Thanks to those that stood in for me while I was away, and Mike don't sell yourself short.

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            • h2 says:

              With all due respect, you seem to be working on the problems created by others in your so called "community".
              If that were the case with all and as you said the laws were enforced...Well in another world somewhere it's working.
              Pursuit of happiness for some others involves some unmentionable acts. It is not a good argument. Ma Barker was into family as well.
              Illegal vacation cabins? That is a subject on it's own. More lack of enforcement.
              Are these cabins on private property? Where do the people ride? Do they stay on the road? I have a right to keep others off my property.

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            • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

              Over reaction? Let me tell you, as Jethro Tull said, you Living in the past. Here is current reality.
              More destruction every weekend at the beaches than by off roaders in a year. But your so concerned with Off roaders at Pismo. First clean the plank out of your eye so you can see more cleaarly. Where is the outrage for the trashing of the beach and ocean by the general public? Come on, pull your head out of the candy bar, potato chip bag, beer can, cigarette butt, diaper excrement, fishing hook, fermented milk, plasticware sandy polluted beach and come up for some air.

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            • h2 says:

              Write an article on Whitewater Fish Farm and how the Conservancy has opened unrestricted portals into the wilderness. The place is full of dog poop and trash. They take no responsibility.
              I was doing some work for them. I don't anymore.
              That is not what we were talking about though. This is a different article.

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            • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

              h2, Do you disagree with my point? The general public is more destructive than the off road community? I only gave you one glaring example of the beaches as an example. The desert's are cleaner than they were 20 years ago and you can't dispute that. Guess who does a major portion of the clean up. Off road organizations. Same goes for the trails in the Forest. The overwhelming amount of abuse came from the same general public that abuses the beaches, parks, highways. The kind of people that drive H2 Hummers with lowriding street tires. So please do not post anything regarding my post unless you first answer my questions that you have ignored. Is your opinion of off roaders being the problem based on your personal observations?
              Why are you so quick to condemn the off road community but ignore the more prevalent destruction of the environment by the general public to areas such as the beach ? Your logic that the its the off road communities fault that the base is taking over the land is illogical. Your silence and trying to change the subject speak louder than you think. Woof

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    • Mike Hawkins Mike says:

      That would be very easy to do wouldn't Richard? And it is something state officials should think about next time they think about screwing with "OUR OFF ROAD TRUST FUND"!

      Vehicles can easily be registered and stickered out of state, many California off-roaders are already doing that and I think most of us who havn't already done so would be happy to contribute to a to a viable program that off-roaders somewhere can expect to actualy use!

      It will be an interesting day when nobody buys a green sticker and law enforcement is unable to press the green sticker fund for grant money to enforce the green sticker law.

      Yeah! Think about it Governor.

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  3. Mike Hawkins Mike says:

    This is part of a JVIA report copied to me from Betty Munson, Johnson Valley Improvement Association. She also had a similar piece as part of the weekly JV editorial she writes for the Star.

    Well, the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) on the proposed expansion of the Marine Air-Ground Combat Center has finally been published, as you no doubt know.
    Residents along Hwy 247 are not surprised to hear that “Alternative 6” is favored by the Marines.
    It proposes “joint use” of the Johnson Valley Open Riding Area…they train on it for 2 months, and you get to use it for 10 months (we don’t know yet which months).
    Recent bombardments near the existing border show us how joint use can work…the distress on Superbowl Sunday, now called Superbomb Sunday, was felt all the way west to parts of Lucerne Valley. It gave Base neighbors a preview of what they could expect from 48-hour-minimum live fire training for three battalions at once. King of the Hammers racegoers from all over the country got jolted, too.
    When Alternative 6 first came out, we commented in this column on Dec. 5, 2009, “some 22% of the open lands in Johnson Valley, set aside generations ago by the BLM for recreational use, would be all that would remain to the public...sometimes. And good luck notifying everyone when to stay away.
    “This is in spite of the fact that a huge majority of the comments during the scoping period a year ago were firmly against any takeover of Johnson Valley: only 1% were for it.
    “We realize that scoping comments are not a vote, but such overwhelming numbers from neighbors and visitors both should be a very loud message to the planners.
    “If Alternative 6 becomes the action of choice, the race courses as well as vast acres for camping and exploring would be history, the world-famous Hammers rock crawler trails would be seasonal, and the neighboring residents and businesses will have been completely disregarded.”
    Nothing has changed since then, plus we now realize the effects of modern ordnance are already bad, and won’t get better.
    The DEIS is almost 1,000 pages long and very thorough. Too much to cover today.
    It's a biggie to download, too, from
    http://www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/LAS/pages/updates.aspx
    The discussion of Alternative 6 begins on page 194. There are maps; satellite images with no named landmarks or roads, so you may not recognize what you see.
    The Public Comment Period runs from Feb. 25 through May 26, 2011.
    Public Review and Comment Meetings will be held during the hours of 5:00-9:00 p.m. on three days:
    Tuesday, Apr. 12, 2011, at Copper Mountain College, Joshua Tree.
    Wednesday, Apr. 13, at Ontario High School, Ontario.
    Thursday, Apr. 14, at Hilton Garden Inn, Mirage/Sahara Conference Center, Victorville.
    Note that the residents along Hwy 247 will have to travel furthest to get to any of these meetings. But we always felt the planners don’t know we are here.
    Back to Square One.

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      I was told by reliable Base sources that there were only

      12

      comments made during the public comment period..... I know that one of them was mine so that makes 11 off-roaders with the ability to get off their asses and write an email.... pretty pathetic if you ask me.

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      • Stanley Stanley says:

        Now thats somewhat interesting Dan. I was told by a reliable source from the base it was a little over 1,200 comments. I know one of them was mine and my family did at least 4-5, something doesn't sound right to me. 1,200 is still pathetic. The only comments probably came from District 37 folks. It seems like the car guy's just don't seem to care, IMO.

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        • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

          I'll trust your reliable source before mine, but still pretty pitiful. We should have jammed their servers and filled their mail boxes.

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          • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

            Now your talkin! Can we turn the tables on the base? Do you know if they would be required to have an environmental impact study conducted before they can execute this acquisition?

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            • Stanley Stanley says:

              I am very sure the EIS has been done. My take would be this. They will take JV. Alternative 6 will be used to appease us for a while with dual use. Then after about 2 exercises with live fire JV will have to be shut down for dual use because it will be too dangerous for us because of live ordinance that could be scattered about and could blow someone up. It really isn't too hard to figure out. Alot of folks have hope this will work. I just don't see it happening. I am trying to be optomistic but the writing is on the wall.

              My concern will be what will happen after the acquisition. If the eco- ding a lings think illegal riding is rampant now just see what happens, and for that matter if they gut the OHV program and there is no money to fund enforcement then it will get worse. The enviro's haven't thought about this or they woudl be up in arms about both of these situations. I personally hope they gut the OHV program. I am tired of paying my money to have lands closed instead of opening lands for our use.

              Disclaimer: my opinions are my own and do not involve any other entity.

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          • desertrider desertrider says:

            12 or 1200 doesn't seem much like it mattered anyway.
            Off-Roaders get screwed again.
            I'll bet the cows are jumping for joy.
            They sure didn't do anything to help keep the area open,even after repeated requests to do so.

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  4. Mike Hawkins Mike says:

    Thank You Betty!

    I share JV’s sentiment!

    Furthermore, I smell a Red Herring in proposal six. It is my opinion that the Base has no intention of dealing with the headache of a part time live fire, part time public recreation area and will renege on the agreement at their earliest opportunity.

    Think about that!

    And everyone, these final meetings are important. Go and share your thoughts while you still can. Take your families. Invite your friends and neighbors to go. Tell them to bring their families and invite their friends and neighbors too. And write the Marines, write the DOD, write Congress, write the President. Tell them the Base could just as well expand to the east, Feinstein’s preservationist land grab be damned.

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  5. Mark Clemons says:

    I can see it now, A hundred thousand ohv enthusiast converge on the east Mojave, They came from afar and wide they reclaimed their desert. who would of thought the ohv community with their mini gonades could ever collectively stand.
    All kidding aside do you guys think the BLM could stop the reclaiming of the east mojave for outdoor use. Come on guys we have our due process, we can flood the system. Don't ride much anymore but would stand with you.

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  6. Cora Heiser cora heiser says:

    Tuesday April 12th, I will be there. Rally the troops uh, I mean the OHV troops!

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  7. Mike Hawkins Mike says:

    Everybody:

    Listen up!

    If you haven’t enjoyed our back yard lately, maybe you should do it today. The opportunity may not be there tomorrow.

    Remember that it’s not just about off-roading!
    Johnson Valley is the Basin’s very own OPEN RECREATION area. It avails itself to a multitude of recreational opportunities. Unlike the local “look but don’t touch” National Park, Johnson Valley is 189,000 acres of “hands on” experience. It’s the kind of place Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders would have enjoyed galloping across or it’s a place where Poets and Song Writers can find solitude. It’s a place where Cub Scouts don’t have to bring their own sticks to rube together and Rock Hounds can keep their booty. It remains a small patch of freedom in a land that is becoming increasingly restricted. You can still camp where the hell you like and put your fire wherever you want it, travel cross country if that’s your bag and do it at your own pace and by whatever means melts your butter.

    We ALL must speak up. Make sure everyone knows THE JOHNSON VALLEY OPEN RECREATION AREA IS OURS AND WE’D LIKE TO KEEP IT PLEASE!

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    • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

      Before someone beats the drum about how we do not respect the Military, lets get something straight. I am a Veteran, I served, my son served, my father served, his father served and his father served we have given true measure for the right to use our Public Lands. My family is not alone. We paid in blood to call this land ours.

      Klasky Flanagan and Smith are not Veterans nor have they served their Country in anything close to a meaningful way. While I and others have fought for them to have the right to bitch, They do not have the right to set the agenda.

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  8. Richard Myers Richard says:

    h2 as i read all your rants one thing comes to mind and this comment kind of tells the story " I have a right to keep others off my property" yes you do, your property, you seem to take that to mean public land.

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    • h2 says:

      ...and the public has decided against allowing open use. I can't plant my peyote there either.

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      • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

        Well I can't say that you don't have a sense of humor. Well done on that one!

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  9. Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

    H2 Said:
    h2 on March 11, 2011 at 5:54 am (Edit)

    Write an article on Whitewater Fish Farm and how the Conservancy has opened unrestricted portals into the wilderness. The place is full of dog poop and trash. They take no responsibility.
    I was doing some work for them. I don’t anymore.
    That is not what we were talking about though. This is a different article.

    Hey my crack dealer died about 10 years ago.... it looks like he passed the recipe on to yours..... Any way you could eh.... get a hold of him? Its not for me of course.

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    • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

      You read my mind. I was wondering the same thing except I think Peyote is more likely. He's probably got a substantial crop investment and the off road community impairs his ability to harvest it. Follow the money trail.

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    • h2 says:

      What does the quote have to do with crack? He wanted to know why I wasn't discussing the problems associated with other forms of recreation. My answer was we were not talking about them. If there is a blog about them I will comment about them. I even brought up 1 that had not been mentioned. Something local we could kick a discussion off with. Something I knew about 1st hand, like Pismo. I personally helped wipe out the clams there and I've spent a lot of time in Whitewater. I have seen the damage done by dune buggies, clam diggers, and dirty ass people that now have easy access to Whitewater.
      I would have less problems with opening more area of the desert to off road if it was restricted by a limited pass system. The same way it is on many hiking trails. X number of vehicles in a given area in a given time. Difficult to get to areas having far less restrictions due to the fact that only the more dedicated, who also tend to be more responsible, would make it to such areas. Locals would have a far easier time getting passes due to being closer to the source. Perhaps put out so many year long passes.
      Just one thought.There has to be others other than " I want it, it's mine". It's not yours.

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      • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

        h2, You might be surprised but I proposed something to that effect to then Senator Alan Cranston as a compromise addendum to S/21
        Cut to the short. It required an off road license to navigate areas of high concern. To obtain the license the user would have been required to pass a an examination that would have required them to know what and how off roading impacts the environment and how to navigate responsibly on existing trails and if applicable open areas. Knowledge is the key. Ignorance is the enemy. After my proposal was rejected I knew that the eco groups were only interested in their own private playground.
        I live in the forest. Sure it would be nice to give the local preference on the trail system. That's not the American way. That's practicing selective freedom. Im' sure that our honorable service men and women didn't serve to defend the rights to freedom for a local only club. Shame on you for thinking that way. When I sang This land is my land, This land is your land as a kid I believed it. I still do. Your locals club reminds me of the other song that says, "Long haired freaky people will be shot on site"

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        • h2 says:

          As a person who has taken state examinations, I have little faith in them. Buy the book, get the answers, take the test or take a class where they read off the answers. Otherwise, I think we are in the same ballpark. I have no doubt you as well as others here have thought this out a bit more.
          I'm not a raging environmentalist. Maybe I come across as one. I'm not suing anybody and have done my share of off road activities.Saddleback, Bell mountain, Cal city... I enjoyed it. There should be areas. Just not everywhere. I like riding my street bike. I don't want roads everywhere. We need to put limitations on ourselves in order to let nature survive. Our state grows too fast to do otherwise.
          We were joking about peyote and what not. The pot growers were and still are the worst ofenders.
          No locals club. Only a slight advantage for those who live here due to logistics.They are the ones who have to deal with it daily and should have more rights to use their so called backyard. I have to drive to Mentone to get a pass to hike. That gives a local preference to those who live there. It can be overcome with a little bit of planning.
          It is mostly locals that do the volunteer work, put up barricades, do the local lobbying. They have more concern for the area.

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          • Dan OBrien Dan OBrien says:

            Well... all righty then

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          • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

            Yes the pot growers are a great danger. Mexican drug cartels are actively growing crops in the San Bernardino mountains. These guys are packing auto weapons and staged to kill. They fear the open trails because we might expose them. The trails here also serve as a fire break and provide access for fire fighters. But no eco freaks will give any credence to that benefit we copiously provide.

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  10. desertrider desertrider says:

    H2 I don't feel the respect mostly I am working to dispel the lies used to cause the draconian ord to be written.They never actually could come up with any legitimate evidence to prove their point, "I had pictures, but I left them at home" "I was going call but I didn't" "I didn't think to take pictures,but I swear I was covered in a rooster of dirt 12 feet high". What your deal with the "community" thing is I don't know, but the existing laws were not enforced even slightly (as I said "we've tried nothing and nothing works)so in typical lefty fashion lets make a new law to fix the one we were not enforcing and weasel it so those it is meant for can do nothing anymore, but apparently you would not understand that.
    My point about right to happiness is the cows seem to be the ones who think they have some extraordinary right to peace and quiet at all times of the day that others do not, they constantly site it as though it is in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.
    Of course the cabins are on private property, what does that matter? The owners of them did not have anything legally proper to operate them as vacation rentals and weren't going to acquire them had they not been brought to light.
    As far as where they ride that would/did not matter the fact was they were doing what they and other families have/had been doing for decades riding ohvs.
    Of course you have that right no one was/is against it, it was in the original ordinance and elsewhere it is called PC 602.2

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    • Cora Heiser Cora Heiser says:

      This OHV issue is a perfect example of when democracy does not work. (Our forefathers did not want a democracy, because they feared it would become the rule of the few and it has.) This is not hard to figure out. OHVers do not want use all the land, nor do they expect rev it up noisly outside your private homes. Not everyone comes to the desert only for the peace and quiet, and the recreation that lends itself to the desert is off roading. It is not a damn accident that people choose to ride in the sand. Nor is it an accident that people climb mountains, water ski, snow ski...now golf I would not say is natural to the desert, but plenty of those and even though none of the above things is my thing, I don't feel the need to make you stop.

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  11. h2 says:

    If the cabins are on private property, where do you ride? Do they back up to BLM land?

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    • desertrider desertrider says:

      On the roads.
      What land they back up to is irrelevant.
      You seem to think/insinuate (same as the "cows" do) as you call it "my community" wants to ride on private property or virgin land. You would be wrong we want to be able to get from point A (which is generally a house/cabin purchased decades ago so we could enjoy the desert from our ohv's)to point B (which could be a friends house/cabin, an eatery or point of interest i.e. Big Bear, Giant Rock, or anything in-between)on the dirt roads that already exist.
      Something that worked just fine until the illegal vacation rentals came to be and were perceived to be cutting into the highly inflated rents they were gouging from the out of state/country weekend tenants.
      This tantamount to moving next to an airport and then calling for its closure.Everyone new the area was inhabited and has been an off-roading based "community" almost from its inception.
      These people from your "community" came in and wanted to change the area to what was said a "Carmel in the desert". They hold absolute disdain for the locals and look down on, malign and ridicule them.
      Not something I'd say my "community" does.

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  12. h2 says:

    I drive on the dirt roads with no problem. I thought we were talking off road.Where do you go off road when you are surrounded by private properties?

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    • Paparrazi Paparrazi says:

      Well for me, public lands and private tracks or personal property.

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    • desertrider desertrider says:

      What do you drive on the dirt roads with no problem?
      I am not sure what you are trying to get at, I thought I explained it pretty clearly with my point A to point B explanation.
      Maybe you are confused with what off-road is. I consider it to be off paved roads. I rarely if ever feel the need to blaze across the open desert (i.e. where no roads exist) but if I do/did would go to a place such as Johnson Valley.

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  13. h2 says:

    You can do that if you stay om legal right of ways.I.E. off private property other than legal easements. Had the citizen's patrol come by in Morongo when I had a couple of bikes. Somebody made a complaint we were racing by the houses. They followed the tracks. I had been riding with my son. I explained how I had taught him respect for neighbors and that was the end of it. I was legal in what I was doing. We had a pleasant conversation and they left.I didn't start calling people cows, cuss the environmentalists, blame lefties. I figured the neighbors didn't like the noise and were reacting. I didn't care if they were Japanese, legal, I just knew my good time was infringing on theirs. It was rude. It was rude 40 years ago when there were fewer people and the complaints were not as vocal and it is rude now. I don't have headers on my truck for the same reason.
    What it sounds like you are doing is using access roads for through roads. Legal, sure sometimes. I guess that's all that counts in a me, me, mine world.

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  14. desertrider desertrider says:

    First off, when I say "cows" that is an acronym for community off-road watch.
    When I speak of dirt roads I am referring to the exact same roads you are talking about, not trails across properties, but well established roads composed of dirt. You and your son must have been zooming up and down that road alot, why did not your neighbor step out and ask you to take it easy? I am not talking about loitering in an area I am talking about passing by. I also maintain quiet exhausts on my vehicles,FOGR advocates the use of them,there is even a link to quiet exhaust companies on the website.
    Apparently you like Branson are stuck with you preconceptions and are only going to see what you want to see.
    There was and has been little to no infringement, as I said before that you glossed over they claimed wanton destruction verbally but could never produce physical evidence, even the deputy said at the "cows" very own meeting that he could not recall a large number of incidence.
    I am not even going comment further on your last lame comment.

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    • h2 says:

      This whole post has been about open areas, not some beef you had with your neighbors. I'm trying to understand how it is related to driving dirt roads in 29. That is where my confusion comes in. Are you being rude or is someone overreacting? You seem to have the attitude that it is yours to do what you want and they shouldn't.
      You go off subject, don't explain your rant, and call my posts lame out of your frustration. Now I'm supposed to respect you for what? You're supposed to represent who? Good luck.

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      • desertrider desertrider says:

        What??? That's what you have been getting out of this exchange??
        Perhaps you have not been following the OHV issue for the last five years.
        I have never had a beef with my neighbors.
        I am not talking about 29 but if I was the issue would be the same, I am talking about the ability to go from point A to Point B on dirt roads within the county to get to the open areas and others.
        Sure the post is about open spaces and the fact that we the (as you keep pointing out) off-road "community are losing by leaps and bounds.
        Perhaps you should go back and re-read the comments to see where we went astray, I will attempt to do the same. I don't believe I am being rude or overreacting at all here, I am and have been trying to make the point that off-roaders are losing places to go and that is no legitimate reason for other than a few small vocal groups that hate OHV's have a vendetta against them and use the very small number of negative ohv user incidence to malign the whole "community", mostly they just lie.
        I have never asked for your respect, you mentioned with "all due respect".
        I called the last comment "I guess that’s all that counts in a me, me, mine world." of your previous comment lame since I am assuming it was directed towards me.
        I am only frustrated that you don't seem to get what I am talking about, but I should not be, because this is you, you are most always are hardheadedly contrary.

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        • h2 says:

          I don't mean disrespect. I was told by others that my comments were disrespecting the work you were doing with Friends of Giant Rock. That was where my comment was directed. I admit it was getting a bit rude...
          No I haven't followed the issue closely for the last 5 years.
          I think our confusion comes in when we start trying to define a road. We probably disagree there.

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          • desertrider desertrider says:

            Well, that explains a lot. If you had been following this issue you would have probably understood the connection.
            As far as the road definition goes I think I have made that pretty clear what mine is.
            Please enlighten me further on yours.

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  15. Mike Hawkins Muke says:

    http://www.cowdance.com/
    now I'm confused too!

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